Club Coupe - I got the call...
#32
Drifting
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Maybe this one's specialer than other special 911s, but there have been a metric butt-load of them down the years, and except in cases where there are real performance gains unavailable on other models at the time (such as RS3.8 or RS4.0), the conventional wisdom -- which says " Max of +5% above comparable non-SE car" -- always seems to hold true. Silver Anniversary SCs, 40th Anniversary 996, Boxster 550, Boxster RS60, Boxster Orange, Club Coupe, 911/50, yada yada yada.
Since this is a collection of paint and fabric specials, and nothing more, AND it pays homage not to the 911 per se, but to a Club... :shrug:
hard to see it doing anything except mirroring 911 depreciation on a slightly less steep curve. Which is fine if you love the car and are willing to pay the premium over a GTS with similar kit. But a silly way to "invest" 140,000 bucks.
At least in my state, you are taking a 7% hit on state/county sales tax, plus some ginormous percentage in ad valorem tax (GA now bills it all in one lump sum, instead of spreading it out over the life of the car, so they can collect many times over on the same car as it changes hands.) So something like 10% is out the door on taxes to start with, meaning the real depreciation will be fierce (from an investor's POV) during the first year. Your $145,000 MSRP car will really cost you about $160,000. Hard to see it being worth that 12 months hence.
And as wisely pointed out, 20 years from now it will be amazing if it's even back to original cost (in real dollars.)
Funny example: I got an itch for a 73 RS 2.7 in 2002. Honed in on a white/red M472 Touring on the west coast, asking 60k. Research showed the guy had paid 42 for it 2 years earlier, but he had receipts for 20k in work, so he was about a wash. Ultimately, even though the car checked out the wife and I (notice the order of those two people?
) decided a beach house was more in order at that time. Fast forward 5 years and the 911RS has gone up about $160,000 in value! WoooHooo!
But the beach house has gone up 480,000 above our cost, including furniture, taxes, etc. (we had an unsolicited written offer in hand at that time.)
Cars just never really make any sense.
Since this is a collection of paint and fabric specials, and nothing more, AND it pays homage not to the 911 per se, but to a Club... :shrug:
hard to see it doing anything except mirroring 911 depreciation on a slightly less steep curve. Which is fine if you love the car and are willing to pay the premium over a GTS with similar kit. But a silly way to "invest" 140,000 bucks.
At least in my state, you are taking a 7% hit on state/county sales tax, plus some ginormous percentage in ad valorem tax (GA now bills it all in one lump sum, instead of spreading it out over the life of the car, so they can collect many times over on the same car as it changes hands.) So something like 10% is out the door on taxes to start with, meaning the real depreciation will be fierce (from an investor's POV) during the first year. Your $145,000 MSRP car will really cost you about $160,000. Hard to see it being worth that 12 months hence.
And as wisely pointed out, 20 years from now it will be amazing if it's even back to original cost (in real dollars.)
Funny example: I got an itch for a 73 RS 2.7 in 2002. Honed in on a white/red M472 Touring on the west coast, asking 60k. Research showed the guy had paid 42 for it 2 years earlier, but he had receipts for 20k in work, so he was about a wash. Ultimately, even though the car checked out the wife and I (notice the order of those two people?
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
But the beach house has gone up 480,000 above our cost, including furniture, taxes, etc. (we had an unsolicited written offer in hand at that time.)
Cars just never really make any sense.
#33
Rennlist Member
#34
Burning Brakes
#35
Drifting
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Not to go too far off topic here, but according to your signature, there are 4700 miles on your 993. Is that right? My poor math skills tells me that means it's been driven an average of 261 miles per year. If that's correct, I've gotta ask: why? (or maybe, why not?)
Anyway, to the OP, it sounds like a lot of money to me. Don't expect it to bring much more in resale than a "normal" 911, especially since you'll be paying closer to sticker than the "normal" 911 buyer. In other words, buy it because you want it, not because it's a good investment.
Anyway, to the OP, it sounds like a lot of money to me. Don't expect it to bring much more in resale than a "normal" 911, especially since you'll be paying closer to sticker than the "normal" 911 buyer. In other words, buy it because you want it, not because it's a good investment.
#36
Rennlist Member
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[QUOTE=MJBird993;12149884]Not to go too far off topic here, but according to your signature, there are 4700 miles on your 993. Is that right? My poor math skills tells me that means it's been driven an average of 261 miles per year. If that's correct, I've gotta ask: why? (or maybe, why not?)QUOTE]
Right, good question. The short answer is I've only owned it since Thanksgiving. I bought it from a dear friend, the original owner, who always had at least two other cars to drive, so he used it (obviously) very sparingly.
If you're interested in the (much) longer answer, here's an intro thread that I posted on the 993 forum shortly after getting the car. It's a bit of my personal 911 biography.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ction-etc.html
Right, good question. The short answer is I've only owned it since Thanksgiving. I bought it from a dear friend, the original owner, who always had at least two other cars to drive, so he used it (obviously) very sparingly.
If you're interested in the (much) longer answer, here's an intro thread that I posted on the 993 forum shortly after getting the car. It's a bit of my personal 911 biography.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ction-etc.html
#37
Drifting
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Originally Posted by me!
Not to go too far off topic here, but according to your signature, there are 4700 miles on your 993. Is that right? My poor math skills tells me that means it's been driven an average of 261 miles per year. If that's correct, I've gotta ask: why? (or maybe, why not?)
I was also glad to see that you like the 435, nice car. It's on my list for future potential DD duty.
#38
Instructor
Thread Starter
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If purchased it will not sit in a garage.... Weather permitting it will be driven daily. However, in Chicago that means April-October only
#39
Rennlist Member
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That was a rather long answer, but worth reading, thanks. My 993 was just like yours, red, non-S, except that it had the beige interior and a few more miles (32K-ish) when I sold it. Those pictures bring back memories...
I was also glad to see that you like the 435, nice car. It's on my list for future potential DD duty.
I was also glad to see that you like the 435, nice car. It's on my list for future potential DD duty.
And the 993 is pretty special. Not just mine, but the model itself.
#40
Rennlist Member
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Sent in the docs confirming intent to purchase. I'll wait to make final decision until I see some numbers including the value of my MY13 C2S used for trade.
If purchased it will not sit in a garage.... Weather permitting it will be driven daily. However, in Chicago that means April-October only
If purchased it will not sit in a garage.... Weather permitting it will be driven daily. However, in Chicago that means April-October only
Last edited by mathfuzzy; 03-27-2015 at 03:02 PM.
#41
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Latest info...E-Mail
We have 23 Club Coupes that are unclaimed for purchase. We'll be contacting the next round of winners on Monday morning.
Make sure to stay close to your phone and emails, as you'll only have 48 hours to confirm your intent to purchase.
We have 23 Club Coupes that are unclaimed for purchase. We'll be contacting the next round of winners on Monday morning.
Make sure to stay close to your phone and emails, as you'll only have 48 hours to confirm your intent to purchase.
#42
Instructor
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In evaluating the potential for the Club Coupe no one has talked about the fact that: after 2016 most cars derived from the 911 line will be turbo charged to meet gov. standards, the 2016 model year may be the last of the natural breathing engines, the limited edition(60), the fact that there will not be one reserved for the Porsches museum, that there were only 12 Club Coupes(similar car in Green) built for the German Club Anniversary, exclusive color blue( which I believe will remain exclusive because PCA has adapting this specific shade of blue for it's updated trademarks), the Club Coupe badging and other items.....that this car should be on the list of future collectables. It maybe several years out...Like the current SC's, and G50 Carrera's, G50 Club Sport, G50 Turbo look...it took a while for them to get the appreciation they deserve, and the Club Sport was basically a stripped down Carrera that at the time no on wanted. I believe over time this car will follow the same path to uniqueness and value. But I believe the limited run of 60 is the ultimate value drive.
And....you get a great driver in the mean time!
And....you get a great driver in the mean time!
#43
Rennlist Member
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I didn't get this message. I wonder if this only went to people who registered but weren't in the initially selected group.
#44
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In evaluating the potential for the Club Coupe no one has talked about the fact that: after 2016 most cars derived from the 911 line will be turbo charged to meet gov. standards, the 2016 model year may be the last of the natural breathing engines, the limited edition(60), the fact that there will not be one reserved for the Porsches museum, that there were only 12 Club Coupes(similar car in Green) built for the German Club Anniversary, exclusive color blue( which I believe will remain exclusive because PCA has adapting this specific shade of blue for it's updated trademarks), the Club Coupe badging and other items.....that this car should be on the list of future collectables. It maybe several years out...Like the current SC's, and G50 Carrera's, G50 Club Sport, G50 Turbo look...it took a while for them to get the appreciation they deserve, and the Club Sport was basically a stripped down Carrera that at the time no on wanted. I believe over time this car will follow the same path to uniqueness and value. But I believe the limited run of 60 is the ultimate value drive.
And....you get a great driver in the mean time!
And....you get a great driver in the mean time!
Now probably quite a few will be sold to people who don't fit this group. People like in this thread who talk about all kinds of reasons covering everything except PCA. Those cars will make up the bulk of the used market over the next several years. Some of these will always be floating around. Most of them though will sit tight the next 30 years, being driven on PCA Tours, to Concours, maybe even an autox or DE or two, trips to Parade and other multi-Region events. Anyone not planning on that kind of thing might really want to think about why they really want to get the car in the first place.