what is a 991 "MT" ?
#32
Race Car
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Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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I am amused by the silliness of what defines a manual transmission according to some here.
I'm old enough to remember when a REAL manual transmission meant no synchros and everything had to be double-clutched with each gear change, and drove enough farm equipment and the occasional race car to get pretty good at it. There's an art to it. Synchros are for girlie-girls.
I'm old enough to remember when a REAL manual transmission meant no synchros and everything had to be double-clutched with each gear change, and drove enough farm equipment and the occasional race car to get pretty good at it. There's an art to it. Synchros are for girlie-girls.
#33
Rennlist Member
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I'm with drcollie.
It's just one of those things like payphones and the VCR or maybe a better example, Beta.
All my cars were/are manuals unless they are my Impala or full size domestic pick up.
I love my PDK in the Carrera S but there was this personal excitement that occurred with the latest Getawayer's red GTS review with the manual. I totally agree with him. If it was my only car in L. A. & O. C. freeway traffic I'd stick with my PDK for obvious reasons which is sad because the one of the key reasons the PDK is the choose of trans is the performance advantage. How's that for irony.
I've been in the prowl for a 15 GT3 but I think if I came across the perfect MT 991 GTS I'd be a player. Decisions, decisions.
Cheers everyone.
It's just one of those things like payphones and the VCR or maybe a better example, Beta.
All my cars were/are manuals unless they are my Impala or full size domestic pick up.
I love my PDK in the Carrera S but there was this personal excitement that occurred with the latest Getawayer's red GTS review with the manual. I totally agree with him. If it was my only car in L. A. & O. C. freeway traffic I'd stick with my PDK for obvious reasons which is sad because the one of the key reasons the PDK is the choose of trans is the performance advantage. How's that for irony.
I've been in the prowl for a 15 GT3 but I think if I came across the perfect MT 991 GTS I'd be a player. Decisions, decisions.
Cheers everyone.
#35
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Except for the hideous, awful "Porsche Drive-Off Assistant" ("hill hold"), which makes perfect sense with PDK but which is the most heinous thing with the manual. You have a choice each time you're on an incline with this monstrosity: burn your clutch or stall. Those are your choices. If you're on a hill in traffic and have to inch up the hill, you get to have everyone around you laugh at you for the stink coming from your very expensive hardware, or for watching you lurch and croak and restart, over and over. Oh I know you can take your foot off the brake and wait two seconds every time, but in traffic that just leads everyone to honk at you and try to roar around you - in other words, yet again thinking that you have no idea how to drive that fancy car you're in.
Otherwise, it's a wonderful manual. Just as smooth and positive and slick as can be.
H.
Otherwise, it's a wonderful manual. Just as smooth and positive and slick as can be.
H.
#36
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H.
#37
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#38
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I am amused by the silliness of what defines a manual transmission according to some here.
I'm old enough to remember when a REAL manual transmission meant no synchros and everything had to be double-clutched with each gear change, and drove enough farm equipment and the occasional race car to get pretty good at it. There's an art to it. Synchros are for girlie-girls.
I'm old enough to remember when a REAL manual transmission meant no synchros and everything had to be double-clutched with each gear change, and drove enough farm equipment and the occasional race car to get pretty good at it. There's an art to it. Synchros are for girlie-girls.
![bowdown](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bowdown.gif)
#39
Burning Brakes
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But if you try to force it, then yes, you stall it because you've essentially just dropped the hammer with the brake still on. BTW, the execution in the Porsche of hill hold is the best I've had so far and easiest to get used to.
As to why you can't turn it off? Most likely it's considered a safety feature, and some things are chosen at corporate level as non-defeatable. Just like you can't turn off the DRL's on a US model 991, you can't program out hill hold either.
#40
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But, any true manual enthusiast would still want to take a ball bat to the engineer. For making the 'manual' automatic. I mean, if you're going to hold true to your manual principles.
Uh oh, principles. False premise.
Nevermind….
Uh oh, principles. False premise.
Nevermind….
#42
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I'll take the MT to symphony analogy and move it into a more direct comparison.
Drumming...
Playing a full kit involves both feet and hands working in concert to create a groove and dynamics. Slow and soft, hard and aggressive etc. A good drummer is constantly working the hi-hat and kick pedals to create the groove, and using their fingers and wrists to accent the hi-hat and snare to develop a consistent back beat for a full sound.
I think driving a MT car is similar. The overall "groove" is set by the driver and they have total control over the car. A talented driver can manipulate the clutch-shifter-throttle-brakes and steering to create whatever experience is called for at the time. Fast and aggresive, smooth and controlled etc.
Obviously a driver skilled at using the PDK and manipulating the gear selector, throttle, brakes and steering could accomplish the same thing, but the clutch engagement is controlled by the machine and not the driver. So in that sense the timing of the clutch takeup is more like playing a digital drum kit and having MIDI trigger drum samples. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a different overall feel.
Just as drum machines, drum samples, MIDI are better at certain music, a live drummer is better for other music.
I can really understand why people would be passionate about the transmission, as it is the direct link to the "heart" of the car. I can also understand why people would choose PDK since it gives them the best overall performance in test numbers. Similarly, I can understand how people would choose a MT as it gives them the most visceral interaction with the car. (save for no syncros/double de-clutching etc.)
It's nice that Porsche still offers a choice (for now).
Drumming...
Playing a full kit involves both feet and hands working in concert to create a groove and dynamics. Slow and soft, hard and aggressive etc. A good drummer is constantly working the hi-hat and kick pedals to create the groove, and using their fingers and wrists to accent the hi-hat and snare to develop a consistent back beat for a full sound.
I think driving a MT car is similar. The overall "groove" is set by the driver and they have total control over the car. A talented driver can manipulate the clutch-shifter-throttle-brakes and steering to create whatever experience is called for at the time. Fast and aggresive, smooth and controlled etc.
Obviously a driver skilled at using the PDK and manipulating the gear selector, throttle, brakes and steering could accomplish the same thing, but the clutch engagement is controlled by the machine and not the driver. So in that sense the timing of the clutch takeup is more like playing a digital drum kit and having MIDI trigger drum samples. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a different overall feel.
Just as drum machines, drum samples, MIDI are better at certain music, a live drummer is better for other music.
I can really understand why people would be passionate about the transmission, as it is the direct link to the "heart" of the car. I can also understand why people would choose PDK since it gives them the best overall performance in test numbers. Similarly, I can understand how people would choose a MT as it gives them the most visceral interaction with the car. (save for no syncros/double de-clutching etc.)
It's nice that Porsche still offers a choice (for now).
#43
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At the top of this article is a pic of Chuck with his new high-tech VR goggles, explaining the elimination of MS ("Menial Steering"), MB ("Menial Braking"), and MN ("Menial Navigation") to the excited passengers in his new ride. They of course spent years listening to Chuck's rants about "Menial Transmissions", so they're hip to his lingo and ready for an exciting day of Grand Touring with Chuck's multi-core processor at the helm:
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/the-eco...mous-vehicles/
Lest you think this is some far-in-the-future event:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...to-coast-trip/
H.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/the-eco...mous-vehicles/
Lest you think this is some far-in-the-future event:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...to-coast-trip/
H.
#44
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Those self driving cars look like real "drivers cars". I can't imagine the excitement of an open road and sitting back in a self driving car with VR goggles as the drives me around. If it's faster/more efficient at driving the car, why would anyone want to bother controlling anything? If you want to brake, accelerate, shift, and steer yourself do you also want drum brakes and the crank-start your car?
At the top of this article is a pic of Chuck with his new high-tech VR goggles, explaining the elimination of MS ("Menial Steering"), MB ("Menial Braking"), and MN ("Menial Navigation") to the excited passengers in his new ride. They of course spent years listening to Chuck's rants about "Menial Transmissions", so they're hip to his lingo and ready for an exciting day of Grand Touring with Chuck's multi-core processor at the helm:
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/the-eco...mous-vehicles/
Lest you think this is some far-in-the-future event:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...to-coast-trip/
H.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/the-eco...mous-vehicles/
Lest you think this is some far-in-the-future event:
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...to-coast-trip/
H.
#45
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Those self driving cars look like real "drivers cars". I can't imagine the excitement of an open road and sitting back in a self driving car with VR goggles as the drives me around. If it's faster/more efficient at driving the car, why would anyone want to bother controlling anything? If you want to brake, accelerate, shift, and steer yourself do you also want drum brakes and the crank-start your car?
H.