doctp12

Many stories about Porsche not honoring warranty on motors with Manual transmissions with lots of over revs in cat. 4,5,6 etc.
No problems with over revs in Cat. 1 and 2.

With PDK transmissions, is it even possible to get over revs in any cat. over 1 or 2, or does the PDK transmission prevent that?

Cheekymonkeyman

... Ignorant question from me... What are Cat 1,2 etc? Thx

doctp12

When your mechanic evaluates your car by hooking up their computer to your cars computer, it will tell them how many times, revolutions, you have exceeded red line.
Cat. 1 means just hitting redline and rev limiter.
Each category above will represent higher revolutions beyond redline.
If you miss a shift, ... going from third to second, when you wanted to go to fourth, you will over rev your engine.
Depending on how much above red line, will register different Categories... over Cat. 3, starts to stress the engine and if an engine failure occurs then or even a year later, Porsche might not honor your warranty.

LexVan

Yes, it's possible to get over-revs with a PDK. They are documented on the 997 Forum. But, very-very rare. What is your concern?

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CSK 911 C4S

Isn't a PDK launch control....LAUNCH...... an over-rev?

It sure hits the rev limiter a few times.

Was told the car does not keep track of launch control starts.

LexVan

U were told wrong. The 991 DME/ECU tracks the # of LCs.

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chuck911

A quick search turned up the following very informative article http://www.911virgin.com/porsche/rev-range-information/

One bit that stands out, if only because so many have stated otherwise:
"At full throttle and whilst pushing and holding the accelerator pedal down indefinitely the engine can’t and won’t exceed the rotational speed of the limiter. However, when a driver selects too low a gear relative to the speed of travel, the momentum of the car can mechanically drive the engine past a point of safety."

Tcc1999

This has really been talked to death on the 997 Board. So, do an advanced search for keyword: PDK over revs; and under user name type in: Mdrums. (I'd use Mdrums because he has been vocal on the topic and has chimed in on all the salient discussions.). Happy reading!

gota911

Here is a thread from the 997 Forum in which Alan C. reports he had 767 ignitions Rev Range 1 on his 2011 GRS with PDK.

2011-gts-pdk-dme-rev-ranges-observed

todd92

First, Cat 1&2 aren't overrevs, they are recorded ignition events just below and at redline. They are of no significance for warranty or any other reason.

Cat 3 and above are events over redline. It might be possible to record a Cat 3 under acceleration, but I doubt it. So really Cat 3-6 are to record 'money' aka 'moron' shifts. Porsche won't warranty stupidity, although it seems if the engine has survived the initial event for more than 200 miles, they might still warranty it.

I think the OP's question is simply can a PDK be moron shifted. I know the GT-R could in full race/manual mode. I don't have a PDK, so I don't know.

On an aside, I just don't see how a moron shift can occur. I've owned manual transmission cars for 40 years, driven them very aggressively, tracked them, and never come close to moron shifting any of them.

LexVan

WRONG! All over-revs are above redline. Range 1 through range 6.

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todd92

That's not at all what this link http://www.911virgin.com/porsche/rev-range-information/ posted above says. Please post your source which refutes and disproves this information.

Todd B

From that source the 997 GT3 ranges are correct and are all above red line. Don't know about the other cars. The over rev counts should be just that, over revs over redline. Nothing to do with hitting the rev limiter. The over revs generally occur in a manual when down shifting, since the electronic cut out cannot stop the mechanical over rev driven by the wheels.

On my 981 S I have zero over revs recorded and the car has been on track numerous times in sport plus mode, which only shifts at red line. Even in manual mode you can bounce off the rev limiter and those will not be over revs.

drcollie

On an aside, I just don't see how a moron shift can occur. I've owned manual transmission cars for 40 years, driven them very aggressively, tracked them, and never come close to moron shifting any of them.

Well, we like to call them "Money Shifts", rather than moron shifts....and I did one in this car at VIR back in 2003.



I've been an Instructor since 1997, so I've had hundreds of track days under my belt and like you - over 40 years of manual transmission cars. In fact, when I did the 'Money Shift' it was in the Instructor session prior to the DE School. My buddy Shane had just gone 'round me at T8 at VIR in his SCCA Audi Race Car on slicks and I was setting him up to try to get the pass back coming into T10. There's a short straight between 8 and 9 where you can pour on a sprint, and you go from 4th to 3rd when hard on the brakes coming into 9. I went for the aggressive downshift while standing on the brakes and got into 1st instead of 3rd, released the clutch and " ! BAM !" the engine exploded in a nano-second with a bang, puff of smoke and all the dash lights came on. I coasted to the side of the track on the other side of T10 by the wall. Sometimes even Instructors get caught up in the 'red mist'. lol

The engine grenaded. Estimated rpms were 15,000 and it blew the connecting rods clean through the case. A new short block was $ 16,000 and had to be hand-built by Porsche in Germany as there were none in the USA or in stock anywhere in the world. Took three months to get it. Wife was displeased.

I'm still instructing, and still driving manual transmission cars. FYI, its more common than you think. At least five of my fellow Instructors I know have done them in their cars as well over the past two decades - and its a source of constant teasing every time we get together - who has done the Money Shift and who hasn't - yet.

NVRANUF

Pretty sure Cat 1 & 2 are "on the rev limiter", not below the red line as stated above, but either way of no consequence.

Wow, no missed shifts in 40 years!! I wish I was that good! LOL but despite a "moron" up-shift in my GT3 with 184 ignitions in Range 4 my engine did not suffer.

With PDK the only way to record range 3 or higher would be on downshifts, ie. selecting a gear to low for the rate of speed travelled.

PS: well stated drcollie! Yes we all have had it happen! .. and ouch on your consequence!! I was able to catch mine, but circumstances that it occurred were VERY similar.