No more PTS until MY '16
11-15-2014, 10:23 PM
#31
Connecting the dots...
These are my latest thoughts at the moment which I posted at the gt3 forum. My 2 centavos, for what it's worth, with whatever information we have at present:
Well, that's not what is really funny about his car. We may have actually seen it on this forum parked on the side of Werk II sporting a variety of wrong-colored body parts! That is beyond funny...it's tragic!
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...y-pts-gt3.html
And this could be our second clue as to why PTS has just been put on hold at PAG (I'll talk about our first clue in one minute). Quality control issues on exterior painted parts needed for final assembly of a gt3 and other models. Remember that outside vendors are supplying complete modules & parts (e.g. bumpers, rear deck w. spoiler) to PAG already painted & ready for the final assembly process at Zuffenhausen. This 'Aqua Blue' gt3 could be the poster child of what is going wrong with PTS at the moment - a breakdown of production & quality controls (incorrect deliveries of 'just-in-time', or below-par 'color matching' of parts, etc).
Our first clue came earlier this summer on this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...or-is-off.html
'Front Bumper Color is Off'. That on a 991 gt3 that was not even PTS. Yet the system (whether in-house paint dept or outside vendor of bumper, which is delivered 'painted') was experiencing difficulty matching 'white'!
And some of you might remember what I posted back then:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...-is-off-3.html
Finally, we have the case of PeteyDaddy's PTS 'Maritime Blau' paint. A just delivered 991 gt3 that had 'issues' with the paint:
It's a damn shame that this happened on a PTS gt3. If indeed the problem was that the clear coat had not 'cured' before the shipping plastic wrap was applied, it could have happened to any other standard color car. But it did occur to this 'Maritime Blau' car and now Porsche needs to investigate if something specifically related to the PTS (the paint chemistry itself or the base primer, etc) is responsible for the delay in cure time and the warranty cost involved ($5500 reimbursed to owner plus cost of expensive paint 'repair' at dealership...plus PAG could be liable for further paint issues with this car in next 4 years!). When your PTS paint problems reach all the way to Detlev von Platen, PCNA and PAG will take notice. And it could have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
A decision then is made at the highest level of the company: Let's re-evaluate PTS at PAG - how we do it, who does it, how much problems it's causing, what is our true costs & profits (if any), what are our extra liabilities & warranty costs, what improvements can we make to our program, including better coordination with our vendors & improved logistics for arrival at assembly as 'needed' - and then decide if we should continue to offer it with the new MY2016.
Dots connected...perhaps.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
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https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...y-pts-gt3.html
And this could be our second clue as to why PTS has just been put on hold at PAG (I'll talk about our first clue in one minute). Quality control issues on exterior painted parts needed for final assembly of a gt3 and other models. Remember that outside vendors are supplying complete modules & parts (e.g. bumpers, rear deck w. spoiler) to PAG already painted & ready for the final assembly process at Zuffenhausen. This 'Aqua Blue' gt3 could be the poster child of what is going wrong with PTS at the moment - a breakdown of production & quality controls (incorrect deliveries of 'just-in-time', or below-par 'color matching' of parts, etc).
Our first clue came earlier this summer on this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...or-is-off.html
'Front Bumper Color is Off'. That on a 991 gt3 that was not even PTS. Yet the system (whether in-house paint dept or outside vendor of bumper, which is delivered 'painted') was experiencing difficulty matching 'white'!
And some of you might remember what I posted back then:
The bumpers are not only painted separately...they even perhaps by-passed Zuffenhausen's paint booth altogether and were painted by an outside vendor & delivered fully assembled for 'just-in-time' and 'just-in-sequence' at the final assembly line at Porsche!
As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical & financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense. The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money, on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition. That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Photo One: OP's gt3
Photo Two: Macca's gt3
Photo Three: PTS color code z10 'orange' 997 Turbo with NOT fully matching plastic vs metal paint coloring which I photographed in 2012 at the Historics. That is why some colors are not approved for PTS or are discontinued from production if something like this is discovered with time - to avoid warranty complaints & warranty claims down the line for the manufacturer!
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As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical & financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense. The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money, on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition. That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Photo One: OP's gt3
Photo Two: Macca's gt3
Photo Three: PTS color code z10 'orange' 997 Turbo with NOT fully matching plastic vs metal paint coloring which I photographed in 2012 at the Historics. That is why some colors are not approved for PTS or are discontinued from production if something like this is discovered with time - to avoid warranty complaints & warranty claims down the line for the manufacturer!
.
Finally, we have the case of PeteyDaddy's PTS 'Maritime Blau' paint. A just delivered 991 gt3 that had 'issues' with the paint:
A decision then is made at the highest level of the company: Let's re-evaluate PTS at PAG - how we do it, who does it, how much problems it's causing, what is our true costs & profits (if any), what are our extra liabilities & warranty costs, what improvements can we make to our program, including better coordination with our vendors & improved logistics for arrival at assembly as 'needed' - and then decide if we should continue to offer it with the new MY2016.
Dots connected...perhaps.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
11-15-2014, 10:45 PM
#32
Race Director
Eduardo,
You're positive some of the plastic parts are painted elsewhere other than the factory?
If that's the case, having them match exactly is very very difficult. Especially when you're doing these one off PTS colors. I don't know how they pulled that off so far. Even the same paint in different batches can vary. Take the same color 911 a few weeks or months apart, and there's a chance the color isn't a 100% match.
Not very encouraging news and not funny. I was just shocked to see the Aqua Blue GT3.
You're positive some of the plastic parts are painted elsewhere other than the factory?
If that's the case, having them match exactly is very very difficult. Especially when you're doing these one off PTS colors. I don't know how they pulled that off so far. Even the same paint in different batches can vary. Take the same color 911 a few weeks or months apart, and there's a chance the color isn't a 100% match.
Not very encouraging news and not funny. I was just shocked to see the Aqua Blue GT3.
11-16-2014, 12:10 AM
#33
And not just traditional 'plastic' parts - but also to include some carbon fiber, aluminum, alloys & steel items that might be destined for final assembly into a Porsche. For example, the alloy wheels painted to match exterior color on some models are all painted by the wheel vendor at their factory - not by PAG! Also Porsche cabriolet models use top systems* which could contain 'metal' exterior parts that are painted at the supplier and not at PAG! Just two examples that make the point that Porsche today is doing the assembly of vehicles with parts that are often painted outside their factories and are delivered to them 'just-in-time' and 'just-in-sequence'.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*I know from a visit to Audi Neckarsulm that the entire top mechanism for my R8 is supplied as a complete 'working/finished' module by Magna Steyr (owned by Canadians, eh!). And the exterior parts of this module is pre-painted at CTS to match the exterior color selected for his/her vehicle by the customer. It's installed just as delivered by the supplier on the R8.
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11-16-2014, 08:40 PM
#35
I think I know that Brett! I posted about it back in June here at Rennlist. 
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8211...ive-in-us.html
But he is still in the loop. And some here might still have a personal relationship with him & get the inside story as to what's really going on.
Eduardo
Carmel
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8211...ive-in-us.html
But he is still in the loop. And some here might still have a personal relationship with him & get the inside story as to what's really going on.
Eduardo
Carmel
11-17-2014, 05:28 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Lantern: I don't anticipate Porsche will allow PTS on the MY2015 991 gt3 RS. Given the many unique body parts on this model, I anticipate that many of these will be manufactured & painted by outside vendors to arrive 'just in time' to the production assembly line at Zuffenhausen. Thus, I think they'll limit the colors of the 'RS' model to just 4 or 5...and no PTS for the first year of production! But that is just a hunch...we will find out their plan soon enough! Just in case, if I was you, I would start warming up to 'Blutorange/Tangerine' if you are interested in a 'different-from-normal' coloring on your '15 991 RS. 
I expected as much, sadly. This means I will not be getting a MY2015 991 GT3 RS. But, that doesn't come as a surprise to Brett, as he knows I'm a PTS fanboy, and I avoid buying first model year cars if I can help it*.I'm a patient guy, so long as it contributes to getting exactly the configuration I want.
(* Of course, there are exceptions, for example: 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0, 997.2 GT2 RS, Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series, and any other limited edition car that's only offered one model year.)
11-17-2014, 08:50 PM
#37
I think we need to get official word from 'Porsche Exclusive' at PCNA and/or PAG to explain the reasons why PTS has been discontinued for MY2015. We have all speculated as to the possible reasons for it on this forum in the past few days. And we now await to get confirmation as to what actually caused it...if they decide, that is, to be truthful & honest with us!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*Engines are supposedly all being built in Zuffenhausen for all Porsche models.
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