solomonschris

I agree with all you say, especially when you state it is "A really good business". I didn't mean to imply that all fund managers were Steven Cohens or Ray Dalio, who has over 100 billion under management and a net worth of many billions. I have a friend who has a yacht yard with many customers from Greenwich, Conn. who run funds, and those guys can afford a $250K 991tts like picking up a dinner check, which is what I stated in an earlier post in this thread. That there are many such ways that big money can be made in this country is part of our greatness. My own opinion is that the financial industry gets a bigger piece of the pie than they are entitled to, but they may be because I wasn't in that industry.....Chris

mgent

They definitely can buy a $240k TTS, which is the only reason a $240k TTS exists! haha

They get a big piece, but if you believe in the markets, they'll self correct... Bad managers get lower fees or can't raise funds, good managers get higher fees and share in the wealth creation for their clients.. There are defiantly those out there that give the business a bad name, and most of the 'good guys' you'll never know about...

There are many businesses I consider to be in the same boat - why does a realtor get 3% of a big number for meeting me at a house for 30min on a Sat afternoon, and filling in a standard contract?

Sorry for getting this thread off-track... I still think a $240k TTS is nuts, but I'm guessing they'll find a buyer - This is smart for Porsche to capture a portion of the market that is currently buying the more expensive 12c, 458, Huracan, etc as weekend cars, and get them in a Porsche as a DD.. Also sets them up for the launch of the 960. I would also bet that this would be their best margin car!

DMoore

The GT3 that was the subject of the original post was listed on the dealer's website for $200K for two days. It was then "marked down" to $180K. The sticker price was about $167 as it was very heavily optioned. Ceramic brakes, front end lift kit, tons of leather, etc.

It's been sold to a regular customer of that dealership, and I'd be willing to bet that the final price was much closer to sticker than even the $180K that was listed.

I understand the customer sentiment that "I won't pay a dime over sticker." I also under basic supply and demand economics. The car has been unavailable and there is clearly a pent up demand for it. It also appears that will be made and sold in very limited quantities. If a customer is willing to pay a premium to have the first in town, I'm not upset at a dealer giving his customer that opportunity.

DMoore
'13 991S
'13 970 GTS

Dyim

The problem with Porsche pricing is that the base car comes with nothing. The ability to customize every little thing drove up the final price.

If you are spending 100k, what's another 20-30k in options. You EXPECT a car in that range to have those options. You are willing to pay for it because we are not talking basic transportation anymore. We are buying toys. When you start at 200k, 50k is really not that much. If I am spending a good chunk of cash to get a Porsche, then I am getting EXACTLY what I want. As long as there are suckers like us willing to pay, Porsche will continue to charge what they want.

solomonschris

To mgent...Again I agree with all you say, especially the last sentence. We should be neighbors.

To DMoore... Supply and demand is the only immutable law of life, or economics. I love 993's. The difference in price between the standard 993tt and the 993tts is now over $150K. The cars are nearly indentical...a few styling cues and a bit more power, BUT they are much more rare. Those that paid $90K for a tts instead of $60K for the standard car are now looking downright prescient.

To Dyim...the base 991 dorsn't come with nothing. It comes as one of the finest sports cars ever made. That they tempt us to "gild the Lilly" is brilliant marketing. I think it is astounding that they are able to market the same "platform" to a buyer in the $85K range up to one looking to spend up to a quarter million bucks. I can think of no other example of a car appealing to such a wide audience. I just heard part of a segment on NPR that said Porsche has found that 80% of Porsche buyers are men, but 50% of the population is women. They are looking to get more women buyers. What's next, pickup trucks?

Z356

In the 'there is a posterior for every saddle' department, I learned yesterday that someone saw the 'Viper Green' MY2014 Turbo S Cabrio which is the current demo of 'Porsche Exclusive' for the West Coast...and has to have it! So PCNA will probably sell it just after they finish up with the Porsche Zentrum this weekend here in Carmel. The MSRP is just over $246K.

'Porsche Exclusive' will then order a new MY2015 PTS 991 as their West Coast demo.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

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fast1

The median income of a new 911 owner in 2008 was $390,000, so it's probably closer to $450,000 in 2014. When you are fortunate enough to have a business with customers who are primarily in the upper 1% income range, you have lots of latitude as to what you can charge for your product.

MJBird993

Can I get on a little rant here? We were considering a home locally that was listed for 700. I figured that at that price, the seller was going to pay $42,000 in sales commission (6%). For what? For the listing agent to put a sign in the front yard, take some pictures, list it on MLS and have an open house? And then they're going to pay my buyer's agent half of that to (as mgent says) spend 30 minutes writing up a contract? That's ridiculous!

Now granted, the realtors themselves don't usually make all of it, most of it goes to the brokers that they work for, and there are situations where a realtor really does have to work at finding the buyer a home (think first-time buyers, people with compromised credit, etc.) but as we get into these higher priced homes, you're talking about folks with means, with down payments, second, third or fourth-time buyers who've done it before...

OK, I'll stop ranting. What were we talking about, over-priced Porsches?

Grunty

Don't get me started on realtors. As a sales guy myself, I once asked a realtor we met with what value she would bring to me as the buyers agent. She looked at me as if I had two heads and mumbled something about navigating board approval. Ummm I can get my financials to the board just fine.
Realtors are a lot like specialists on the NYSE, completely redundant at this point and exist only to collect a chunk of the transaction in question.

mgent

Realtors - I only have the issue with Buyers agents... Sellers agents, at least since 2008, have to actually work and spend to successfully market a house... 3% worth? don't know about that, but not as much of an issue there...

Porsche - I think sometimes people are just looking at it with the wrong perspective, driven by historical broad auto market practices... Instead of thinking of a $100k base 991, it should probably be a $115 base 991, which you can delete options from and get as low as $100, or you can add additional options to and get up to $130... In reality, that's how it works - how many cars don't have PCM, some sort of leather or other interior thing, and upgraded wheels? That's impossible for Porsche from a marketing perspective though, due to the historical practices of showing the lowest possible price, then adding options... They should just offer a 'generic options package' for $10k that has all the expected stuff, so people don't feel so bad by checking so many boxes and seeing it all add up to the same amount...

lunarx

I just figure that those cars, priced above sticker, are technically Not for sale.
The dealer has some hidden agenda to keep the car displayed, in the showroom, and switch buyers to other cars and intimidate those customers from seeking discounts.

Yup it works every time....

ruhlich

Eduardo:

I can't seem to find the deviated stitching, the yellow gage faces, the green inlays nor the white armrest/seat bottom in the Kelly Blue Book. Certainly these "enhancements" have value after the initial purchase??

"Oh", you say, "buying a Porsche is not an investment"....

I got it.

Z356

Sadly, that is true for many options on almost all modern luxury cars. The personal enjoyment of these features, while you own the car, is your 'reward'.

Me...I have said nothing of the sort. Buying most current production Porsches is not a good financial investment since the depreciation is pretty steep. But there are exceptions. I sold my custom ordered '12 Boxster Spyder for more money than I bought it precisely because the way it was optioned. And there are some owners of the recent .2 997 gt3 RS Limited Edition 4.0 that are close to doubling their money should they choose to sell today. And of course, buying certain types of older Porsches can be an investment...but that's a different story.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel