Scottish Pete

"Hey you kids . . . get off my lawn!"
Face it Old Guy . . . we are just becoming grumpy old coots. I live sort of near you, up the road from Bakersfield in farm country with bumpy roads. Spending last year's market rise on a new 991S.

Pete Cowper
Visalia, California
1965 911 (1971-77)
1974 911 (1977 to present)
Past-President Valley Oak Region PCA

chuck911

See, this is the problem right here: people don't know where money comes from! IT COMES FROM NOTHING!!!! That's your problem right there. It has nothing to do with Porsche. It has everything to do with the Fed printing a trillion Federal Reserve Notes a year. Then with every other country using fiat currency they all print more to maintain exchange rates. (At least this is the story they give us. The truth is much different.) All this currency comes from nothing! In fact it is LOANED into existence. Yes the banks have the gall to charge us interest on what they generate for free.

Its a fact. You could look it up. They call it fractional reserve lending.

In terms of real money (gold) today's 911 costs about the same number of ounces as back in 1953. In fact when I answered this same question a while back I used a table showing 911's priced in gold at several points over the last 50 years. Vacillated around about where they are today.

Considering how much better today's 911 is than 50 years ago, to be able to buy one for the same price (in gold!) as back then is incredible.

But by coincidence I just happened to be looking at this right before checking RL. Then I just had to look up the price of a MY 1999 911, which was $67,463. Since todays 911 is $84,300, that is an increase of only 25%, which is remarkable.

So, don't blame Porsche.

Blame the Fed.

petee1997

I thought the factory building the 911 is at max production, approximately 30K cars per year. If that is the case, the only way to keep sales at the pace as production is to increase prices. Hopefully for Porsche, the lost 911 sales are going to the Cayman and Boxter.

On the other hand, the Corvette looks more and more like a bargain. You can buy the new Z06 for the price of a base 911.

StudGarden

The new Vette is a stat sheet bargain for sure. It's still no where near the calibre of vehicle a 911 is though. It's a slightly cooler looking 2 seat Camaro with a fugly rear end and moronic exhaust. But a 911 it ain't and never will be.

OldGuy

I apologize to people from other countries, I am ignorant of your issues with your prices.

Solomon Chris, I forgot we are all hedge fund managers. What was I thinking? Why my 3 neighbors (also hedge fund managers just bought 2 new Bentleys and one new Veyron)

Chuck While I understand what you are saying, I still can blame Porsche. They KNOW that their best Market is the US. And out of that SoCal. And they have ALWAYS been the car you could buy at a reasonable price that had more performance and more reliability than other brands. If they DIDNT they wouldnt have dealerships in places like Bakersfield or Boise Idaho. I work in a town that is mostly engineers and scientists(except for all the HEDGE FUND MANAGERS) People who generally are in the top 15% in the country in income. But the rise in salaries has stymied over the last well the last presidential reign. I never saw a $200K 911 (even the GT2)But Porsche is still sending $200K Turbo S's to these small towns expecting our dealers to sell them. If they want to be Ferrari or Lambo guys then so be it. I just dont under stand their sales policies. And judging by other posts here neither do some of my other Hedge fund manager brethren.
For my whole life Porsche has been right there where if you worked hard got educated they had nothing out of reach, but they just seem to be changing philosophy. Prices didnt rise like this in our Dot Com economy where everyone was getting paid more.

IF the Fed is to blame and I can see where they would be, why is the Z06 going to be the performance and price leader. Why are Stingrays not $110,000?

Z356

Hey Petee what is the business school you attended? I went to Wharton and Columbia Business...and I don't remember that ever being taught!

I couldn't agree more. Rather than Fiat, they should have been using Porsche currency instead...like Wendelin Wiedeking was doing, for example. This explains it all. Thank you, Chuck, for that great insight.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

.

chuck911

Well, because their engineering is crap, of course. Soon as they try and make a car the equal of a 911 in every way other than mere performance numbers, well then they'll find it costs quite a bit more. If, indeed, they're even capable of making such a car at any price!

But of course it has always been this way. The first of the c-word cars, back when every Porsche came standard with 4-wheel independent suspensions and disc brakes, they had solid axles and drums. That particular car has always looked a value to those unable to see beyond the numbers.

But back to your question. Did you check out that list? Not only has the cost of a new 911 seen a smaller nominal price increase than any of the commodities and essentials on the list above, the increase it has seen is only half the increase in the average price of a new car. Say again- over the past 14 years Porsche has held their price increases to half that of the average new car. AND less than the CPI. And even less than the Fed's own preferred indicator, the PCS Deflator!

That's right. Adjusted for inflation the 911 costs less than 14 years ago. Were it not for the Fed a new 911 today would be priced LESS than 14 years ago! There's the answer to your affordability question. Think about it.

kosmo

Man i wouldnt buy that viper green cab for $150k much less $250k.

StudGarden

I think the 991 is a good-great value for all the models. Especially the base and S rwd. Some of the options are insane for what you get, and 99.99% of dealer lot cars have all that junk.

Thousands for a moving map? Really? That does what 100% of any phone you can buy comes with for free?

Thousands to have a million lead weight motors in the seats? Lol

I min specced a 981C for my local dealer and it sold in 2 weeks. Ridiculous 3k moving maps and 3k seat/2k wheeled ones rotted on the lot for over a year. Duh. Base 911's shouldn't blow past 100k and S's all 120+ either. They'd move way more, and need way less "trunk money" if they just did that.

My only issue with Porsche and their pricing is what is honestly gouging for zero cost items. All interiors (except possibly black) should be two tone standard. I suggested this to them over a year ago and now (coincidentally) it's at least one of the choices in the new cayenne, and will probably filter it's way to the 911 soon.

There is nothing hundreds of dollars more expensive about the "sport" steering wheel, and they could upgrade that as well for zero cost off the line. Another suggestion they're doing for the SUV's and soon I suspect the 911.

Deviated stitching should be standard on any surface that is stitched. Agate threads with the black interior, dark brown with the beige, platinum with the blue, etc. Doing that off the line would cost zero additional dollars. Custom stitching would of course still be available for a massive eye watering up charge, but that would make all 911's look more hand crafted.

The much ballyhooed "coasting function" needs to either be default in normal mode or have its own button. It's absolutely asinine that it's linked to something completely irrelevant: the auto start stop. That would be free as well.

I don't expect free Bose or whatever, but of they did those things the entire line would look better. Why is it Hondas and VW's come with all that standard and Porsche charges a kings ransom? Because the hedge fund managers keep paying obviously. Fair enough, but the competition is coming on strong. The 991 is the best real life sports car out there IMO at any price. But why not make it better for no extra cost?

Z356

Stud: This is the second time in recent weeks that you mention that you have 'suggested this to them over one year ago' and now it's finally filtering down to the 991. This is total nonsense. For your information, when the 991 debuted in the fall of 2011, it offered from go 2 two-tone color combinations - 'Agate Grey/ Pebble Grey' & 'Black/Platinum Grey'.

See post #20 at:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...and-you-2.html

It was soon followed up by offering 'Black/Luxor Beige'. Then came the wonderful Natural leather combination of 'Espresso/Cognac'. And recently we got 'Black/Garnet Red'. That is FIVE outstanding two-tone color combinations on the 991, 2 from its inception and 3 in gradual steps over the course of 2 1/2 years! That is a superb range of offerings and perhaps the best interiors selections ever offered by Porsche in its long history! And combined with the deviating stitching that is included in all two-tone packages for the dash, top of doors & rear panels (on coupes), these dual-tones are good value too in relative terms.

Finally, let me say that I seriously doubt any of it came about because one of us suggested it to them. I just wanted to clarify all of that for the record.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

.

lunarx

If there really are that many Turbo S sitting on lots, it can only mean the dealers over ordered.
Now they are stuck with them and will need to cut deals, to unload them.
Im sure its still the best way to retain their most profitable car company title.

paradocs98

The green paint, clear taillights, tacked-on rear spoiler, cab top--looks like a $246K Pep Boys Honda special.

O5C4R

thanks for that OldGuy, ya see when an american whinges about something, the rest of the world takes no notice, you have been blessed, get a passport, travel, and you will realise Americans have built the best country on earth, i've visited the US 23 times and still love it.

kosmo

^^^ AMEN!

sechsgang

I think the prices are out of wack given the quality control issues that seem to be dripping from the current range or products. Not to say I don't like the new cars, or that I wouldn't buy one again...but they are putting themselves at price levels that make one consider other choices vs just being the clear choice amongst the competition IMHO. Oh, and the fact that any new non GT car is going to die in value now (what happened to the days of old??? (production numbers likely)) doesn't make it easier.