991 issues update and lemon law filling
04-08-2014, 07:56 PM
#226
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04-08-2014, 08:15 PM
#228
Instructor
Thread Starter
Nick:
First of all, I haven’t read all of the posts here on your situation - they are extensive, which bodes well as to the support you are getting out here. If you already have an attorney, good for you. You can ignore much of this information.
I am a consumer rights attorney in San Diego, CA. While we don’t do lemon law, I do know consumer rights attorneys throughout the country. I contacted another well-respected and highly competent attorney I know in Connecticut (who also does not do Lemon Law,) and she gave me a few referrals of a Lemon Law attorneys in Connecticut that she recommends (who does do lemon law). I suggest you contact this individual. Most consumer rights attorneys work with laws that compensate them for their fees, so you should not need to be concerned about paying this attorney; under most lemon laws, the attorneys’ fees would be paid by Porsche. Even if you were never compensated, (but I believe you would be) having an attorney will get Porsche off the dime. In my opinion, you will be surprised at how fast this thing is resolved once Porsche hears from an attorney. (If you were in Southern California, I know people who would pounce on this faster than a duck on a june bug.)
Whatever you do, don’t retain an attorney that does not specialize in this area of law. You will get far better results from someone experienced in lemon law, if only because Porsche will recognize that attorney will maximize the recovery. I understand that you don’t want to punish the dealer, and perhaps you don’t need to do so, but your loyalty to your dealer should not be at the expense of your much deserved satisfaction. I am of the opinion that your loyalty here, while admirable, is misplaced - this issue needs to be resolved. People don’t buy Porsche’s for transportation; they buy them for the enjoyment of owning a reliable, high performance, sports car. Understandably, you don’t seem to be enjoying it that much. Be sure to hold onto that video.
As a fellow 911S Carrera owner (2013), I feel your pain, and agree with those who say you have been more than patient and reasonable. Considering the kind of money we all spend on these vehicles, we would all like to believe the delusion that they are perfect, but I guess that is asking too much. Still, you have experienced more than your fair share of problems and deserve a positive outcome. Good Luck….
Here are her recommendations:
Dan Blinn, at http://www.consumerlawgroup.com
Sergei Lemberg at http://lemberglaw.com
For those with similar issues, here is an organization of attorneys dedicated to consumer rights.
www.naca.net
First of all, I haven’t read all of the posts here on your situation - they are extensive, which bodes well as to the support you are getting out here. If you already have an attorney, good for you. You can ignore much of this information.
I am a consumer rights attorney in San Diego, CA. While we don’t do lemon law, I do know consumer rights attorneys throughout the country. I contacted another well-respected and highly competent attorney I know in Connecticut (who also does not do Lemon Law,) and she gave me a few referrals of a Lemon Law attorneys in Connecticut that she recommends (who does do lemon law). I suggest you contact this individual. Most consumer rights attorneys work with laws that compensate them for their fees, so you should not need to be concerned about paying this attorney; under most lemon laws, the attorneys’ fees would be paid by Porsche. Even if you were never compensated, (but I believe you would be) having an attorney will get Porsche off the dime. In my opinion, you will be surprised at how fast this thing is resolved once Porsche hears from an attorney. (If you were in Southern California, I know people who would pounce on this faster than a duck on a june bug.)
Whatever you do, don’t retain an attorney that does not specialize in this area of law. You will get far better results from someone experienced in lemon law, if only because Porsche will recognize that attorney will maximize the recovery. I understand that you don’t want to punish the dealer, and perhaps you don’t need to do so, but your loyalty to your dealer should not be at the expense of your much deserved satisfaction. I am of the opinion that your loyalty here, while admirable, is misplaced - this issue needs to be resolved. People don’t buy Porsche’s for transportation; they buy them for the enjoyment of owning a reliable, high performance, sports car. Understandably, you don’t seem to be enjoying it that much. Be sure to hold onto that video.
As a fellow 911S Carrera owner (2013), I feel your pain, and agree with those who say you have been more than patient and reasonable. Considering the kind of money we all spend on these vehicles, we would all like to believe the delusion that they are perfect, but I guess that is asking too much. Still, you have experienced more than your fair share of problems and deserve a positive outcome. Good Luck….
Here are her recommendations:
Dan Blinn, at http://www.consumerlawgroup.com
Sergei Lemberg at http://lemberglaw.com
For those with similar issues, here is an organization of attorneys dedicated to consumer rights.
www.naca.net
04-09-2014, 10:44 AM
#229
Burning Brakes
I agree with the second part but think you are way off on the first part. I don't think this affects how the 991 is or will be viewed at all. Not even slightly. Nick got stuck with a lemon. That could happen with any car and clearly is not typical of 991s. How Porsche has handled it is obviously more than regrettable, but this story is not about the 991 iteration.
It just pains me to see something like this handled this way. I dealt with customers in warranty work with very expensive products before (HVAC in new higher end homes…you want to talk about pushy customers, talk to someone who bought a million dollar + home in July and the AC doesn't work) and I absolutely get that you can't just give everyone a new one anytime there is an issue. But if one of our units failed this many times and basically caught fire multipile times as well, they would be getting a brand new system or a full refund at the very least.
Besides I can't understand why Porsche isn't chomping at the bit (10 points to Gryffindor for making a horse analogy?) to get what has to be one of their most gremlin infested cars back to see what the deal is.
Back to our point in question, I don't think this ruins the 991's reputation. But it will put the question of quality in the minds of a lot of people who previously didn't question it. That effects the reputation of Porsche. It doesn't ruin it, but it effects it in a negative way, and the way all parts of the company have thus far chosen to handle it will begin to set the tone for their brand. I'm thinking about an SUV next year, and the Macan was on the short list. Its still on the list, but the list got longer in part because of this case. Do I want 2 Porsches, especially past warranty (I tend to keep cars 10+ years) if this is how they have their customers' backs? I don't know.
I still really like and respect them; always have. Which is why it pains me to hear stories like this, the 996 and even the GT3, although it appears they are being very very aggressive fixing that problem which is great. But they had to be dragged through the courts kicking and screaming to partially make the 996 issue right when it was 100% their fault from an engineering standpoint. To me, German engineering from a company like Porsche should be sacrosanct and involatile.
My problem with his saga isn't the lemon, its how its been (mis)handled.
04-09-2014, 12:20 PM
#230
I'm extremely sorry that Nick has been put through this. His videos and comments helped me in my decision to buy a Porsche 911.
One of the other reasons I bought it vs. something like the new Corvette (which also looks like a great car) is that I thought Porsche had better build quality and service, which would translate into a better overall experience, especially if I had a problem with the car.
After seeing how they've handled the situation with Nick I'm starting to doubt my assumptions. If anything I figured they'd treat him better than a "regular customer" since his videos are some of the top ones on youtube when you search for "Porsche 991" and he talks to so many prospective Porsche owners. Not to mention he also spent a lot on options on the car. To turn someone that's almost a spokesman for the brand against you makes no sense. This is really a PR and common decency disaster.
One of the other reasons I bought it vs. something like the new Corvette (which also looks like a great car) is that I thought Porsche had better build quality and service, which would translate into a better overall experience, especially if I had a problem with the car.
After seeing how they've handled the situation with Nick I'm starting to doubt my assumptions. If anything I figured they'd treat him better than a "regular customer" since his videos are some of the top ones on youtube when you search for "Porsche 991" and he talks to so many prospective Porsche owners. Not to mention he also spent a lot on options on the car. To turn someone that's almost a spokesman for the brand against you makes no sense. This is really a PR and common decency disaster.
04-09-2014, 01:37 PM
#232
Although the suggestion that a lawyer be retained is excellent, it astounds me that one is even required. This is such an open and shut case, that the remedy, provide Nick with a new identically equipped 991, should have been implemented many weeks ago. Granted that there may be a dispute between the dealer and Porsche as to fault, but that battle is irrelevant to Nick's case and should not delay the remedy.
04-09-2014, 02:28 PM
#233
When Nicoli brought his 991 in for service, next thing you know he's getting a new engine and the old one is back in Stuttgart being torn down to learn what went wrong. So Porsche is all over it when they know they need to be. The question here is the relationship between Porsche the manufacturer and PCNA their dealerships. That seems to be a mess I wonder if any of us will ever understand.
04-09-2014, 05:21 PM
#234
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As for blame Porsche should figure that out. But not at the expense of Nick. If the dealer is to blame Porsche will make them pay. Very simple. Take care of the customer... Charge back the dealer if they didn't follow the correct procedure
04-11-2014, 02:14 PM
#235
Frankly, I have owned many cars including just about every BMW there is that's worth owning. I am on my 3rd 991 since August (by choice-bad upgrade habit) and the two Porsche dealers here in Atlanta have demonstrated that they are HANDS-DOWN the least caring, short-minded automobile dealers that I have ever dealt with. BMW trounces them in customer care. No reason to uphold any loyalty or "saving hard feelings" for a business that has not held your concerns or SAFETY in any regard. I'll spare the stories but your thread reminded me that I suspect that my dealer apparently "stopped" (yes, they do this) my surveys from coming to me for my last 2 purchases. My TTS is at Ferrari right now getting the scratches removed that were graciously applied by Porsche's careless "brush 'em all with the same nasty brush" wash shop (this was not one of my issues-this happens) and when I pick it up today I will be stopping by Porsche to ask why I never got my surveys and asking for them to be sent, followed by an email to Porsche NA to be sure I get them. My dealer still continues to screw me. Took me for $140 last week after making $20K+ profit on my TTS cab.-lol! They don't get it.
Not knocking the car- Love it. I've just been surprised at how sketchy (buying process included) the dealers are. I didn't expect that.
04-20-2014, 05:22 PM
#236
I see Porsche have acknowledged this on Facebook and Twitter and it looks like Nick is getting a new car, or some form of compensation. Great news... looking forward to see Nick get a happy resolution to this debacle - I've also enjoyed the videos - happy to report that my 911S is providing me with lots of joy, only had 1 issue and it was sorted quickly and easily.
04-20-2014, 07:46 PM
#237
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wow i would not expect this from porsche. i have a gtr and let me tell u nissan has been excellent in making sure my ownership is nothing short of great.(i first saw ur video on the natroc forum) i want to thank u for posting cause i was first turned onto porsche last yr when i bought my first which was a 968(i was always a corvette guy, but gm pissed me off so i have not bought any gm pdts since even though the c7 is gorgeous).in the ensuing yr i purchased 2 996tt and love them(i still own the 3 porsches). i enjoy the driving experience of a manual so much that i was shopping for a 991 c4s and almost put the deposit down to order one but now im probably not going to since porsche clearly should have just replaced the car, period end. im empathetic to ur situation... good luck
04-21-2014, 12:01 AM
#238
My neck is sore from my head shaking so much lately.
04-21-2014, 01:07 PM
#239
Wait. Let me get this straight. You are not going to get a 991 because one person had horrible problems with his electricals? Nick seems very nice but he had 3 aftermarket electrical items added to his car ( I don't care that the dealer did it. Any dealer adding a radar detector is suspect imho). There have been negative comments about his dealer and you have not heard Porsches side of the story. Although his story is compelling don't you need to hear both sides? Just because he seems nice and the video is well done you can't totally believe everything. I don't read the GTR posts but I'll bet someone has a bad Nissan story. I have only had very positive experiences with Porsche (4 new 911's since 1988). One bad outcome won't sway me.
04-21-2014, 04:22 PM
#240
Drifting
Wait. Let me get this straight. You are not going to get a 991 because one person had horrible problems with his electricals? Nick seems very nice but he had 3 aftermarket electrical items added to his car ( I don't care that the dealer did it. Any dealer adding a radar detector is suspect imho). There have been negative comments about his dealer and you have not heard Porsches side of the story. Although his story is compelling don't you need to hear both sides? Just because he seems nice and the video is well done you can't totally believe everything. I don't read the GTR posts but I'll bet someone has a bad Nissan story. I have only had very positive experiences with Porsche (4 new 911's since 1988). One bad outcome won't sway me.