Record short term of ownership for a 991 C4S?
12-28-2013, 03:27 PM
#31
william_b_noble 12-4-12:
I've had the car for about 2500 miles, I'm liking it less and less - it is a beautiful, fast car with many amazing features - but it is just huge - I didn't realize how gigantic the car was but I can barely get it into my driveway, and all those features make it "just a car" - I'm finding that I think about it just like a regular rental car - and that's not a good thing - I can press the sports button and go very fast, but it's just not fun like my 993 was, or like a 944, or even my 356. It lost the special "S" type front rubber lip the second day, it fell off every time I went into my driveway or many other driveways, so I bought a non "S" rubber lip (I don't think the car is an S, it just had the lip that does not have the separate retainer) - that is better engineered and it stayed on. I can't pull into many parking spaces because the car is too wide.
it has me thinking I should just sell the car back to the dealer and take the loss and be done with the darned thing..... grumble grumble - I'm seriously tempted to go back to the 356 or my Morgan +4 - those are nice small light cars without all the features (well, without any features...) or maybe my 944
what do you guys think?
it has me thinking I should just sell the car back to the dealer and take the loss and be done with the darned thing..... grumble grumble - I'm seriously tempted to go back to the 356 or my Morgan +4 - those are nice small light cars without all the features (well, without any features...) or maybe my 944
what do you guys think?
12-28-2013, 06:59 PM
#33
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Hi Patty
let s forget the 911 for a while,
if none the Audi R8 nor the Mercedes SLS Black ed.
would be helpful if you could define what is a sport car for you,
might be closer to your idea a Ferrari 458 Speciale or a Cateram R620 ?
if you look just for the torque you have to leave on the plate some handling
it s the only unwritten law in sport car (Turbocharged or bigger aspirated engine
will weight on the car so that means LESS handling )
:-)
less handling more torque = Porsche 991 Turbo
less weight SAME torque (of C4S) = Porsche 911 GT3 (torque is even at higher RPM you can imagine by your definitions this would be even less sport car than the C4S then...
so again the problem is to define what is a sport car (at least for you)
let s forget the 911 for a while,
if none the Audi R8 nor the Mercedes SLS Black ed.
would be helpful if you could define what is a sport car for you,
might be closer to your idea a Ferrari 458 Speciale or a Cateram R620 ?
if you look just for the torque you have to leave on the plate some handling
it s the only unwritten law in sport car (Turbocharged or bigger aspirated engine
will weight on the car so that means LESS handling )
:-)
less handling more torque = Porsche 991 Turbo
less weight SAME torque (of C4S) = Porsche 911 GT3 (torque is even at higher RPM you can imagine by your definitions this would be even less sport car than the C4S then...
so again the problem is to define what is a sport car (at least for you)
12-28-2013, 07:09 PM
#34
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991 C4S
It shouldn't till some frightened children want to make it an issue...
Thank you again for your input.
Be safe and have a fine evening.
Patty
Last edited by achildofthesky; 12-28-2013 at 08:29 PM.
12-28-2013, 07:16 PM
#35
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Patty, like you, I'd buy an RS6 Avant in a heartbeat. Am considering the Mercedes E 63 AMG wagon as an alternative. Worth a look.
12-28-2013, 07:51 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Forget the abundance of same sex loving gals, what's more interesting is the abundance of C4 buyers in the 991 range. It seems they are a much higher percentage of sales in this model than in the previous ones. Even in Houston and Florida I've seen a bunch on dealer lots which doesn't seem to make sense to me. I'd definitely want one in a colder climate where I could use the car more but I much prefer the feel of the 2 in the warm dry areas. I think this is a conspiracy by Porsche to push the the all wheel drive to get the last of the current hardware out the door before switching the range over to the new system used on the turbo. Yep, definitely an international conspiracy that goes right to the top.
12-28-2013, 08:11 PM
#38
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I bought the 4S for the wider hips, the cool red light bar across the back and the 'slightly better feeling steering' (according to some reviews). Where I live it rains a lot and we have a lot of hills. In normal driving, having the front wheels help out a bit makes the car just a bit more fun as I can use more of the performance, more of the time.
I do agree with the OP, I think modern Porsches (apart from the Turbo) often just feel 'nippy' for regular road driving (ie: rarely going above ~5,000rpm). It's quite easy to catch them out and have to wait for the engine to rev for a bit - or the gearbox to change down a gear or two and then everyone for 1/2 mile thinks you are being an *** when they hear the exhaust.... I really dislike having to push the 'Sport' button *every* time I get in the car, or the poor gear ratios designed to separate models, or the low rev lethargy and lack of torque designed to squeeze one or two mpg more out of the standard tests...
Reviews like Motor Trends' are done on a closed road course, or a track - which is where a lot of other reviews are written. I agree, in the last 2,000rpm or so, and on a track, 991's feel awesome, it's just it's not often you can appreciate this performance on the road. :-(
Andy
I do agree with the OP, I think modern Porsches (apart from the Turbo) often just feel 'nippy' for regular road driving (ie: rarely going above ~5,000rpm). It's quite easy to catch them out and have to wait for the engine to rev for a bit - or the gearbox to change down a gear or two and then everyone for 1/2 mile thinks you are being an *** when they hear the exhaust.... I really dislike having to push the 'Sport' button *every* time I get in the car, or the poor gear ratios designed to separate models, or the low rev lethargy and lack of torque designed to squeeze one or two mpg more out of the standard tests...
Reviews like Motor Trends' are done on a closed road course, or a track - which is where a lot of other reviews are written. I agree, in the last 2,000rpm or so, and on a track, 991's feel awesome, it's just it's not often you can appreciate this performance on the road. :-(
Andy
12-28-2013, 08:16 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
Op - An Aston might be the right car for you.... Check this car **** - V8VS:
Or.... get a V12 Vantage perhaps.
Whatever route you choose... choose a little more wisely next time. If you care about the vehicles you drive SO much, a "yeah yeah" purchase seems very strange (never settle).
Or.... get a V12 Vantage perhaps.
Whatever route you choose... choose a little more wisely next time. If you care about the vehicles you drive SO much, a "yeah yeah" purchase seems very strange (never settle).
12-28-2013, 08:16 PM
#40
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C4S...
Hi Patty
let s forget the 911 for a while,
if none the Audi R8 nor the Mercedes SLS Black ed.
would be helpful if you could define what is a sport car for you,
might be closer to your idea a Ferrari 458 Speciale or a Cateram R620 ?
if you look just for the torque you have to leave on the plate some handling
it s the only unwritten law in sport car (Turbocharged or bigger aspirated engine
will weight on the car so that means LESS handling )
:-)
less handling more torque = Porsche 991 Turbo
less weight SAME torque (of C4S) = Porsche 911 GT3 (torque is even at higher RPM you can imagine by your definitions this would be even less sport car than the C4S then...
so again the problem is to define what is a sport car (at least for you)
let s forget the 911 for a while,
if none the Audi R8 nor the Mercedes SLS Black ed.
would be helpful if you could define what is a sport car for you,
might be closer to your idea a Ferrari 458 Speciale or a Cateram R620 ?
if you look just for the torque you have to leave on the plate some handling
it s the only unwritten law in sport car (Turbocharged or bigger aspirated engine
will weight on the car so that means LESS handling )
:-)
less handling more torque = Porsche 991 Turbo
less weight SAME torque (of C4S) = Porsche 911 GT3 (torque is even at higher RPM you can imagine by your definitions this would be even less sport car than the C4S then...
so again the problem is to define what is a sport car (at least for you)
Thanks for taking the time to post again and I do think I see what your are asking about what I want in a sports car.
-More than adequate power at comfortable engine speeds (ie - Don't have to rev the stuffing out of it to have fun, but can do so IF I choose to do so).
-Light (ish at least) weight.
-Quick and sprightly handling without being "nervous" in feel.
-Quality build, fit and finish.
- Aesthetically pleasing to my eye.
-Adequate luxury accouterments.
_For me, I add (not necessary to many others) the AWD componentry.
So far the 911 Turbo and Turbo fit the definition and I am sure there are others. It all comes down to an individuals tastes and driving styles. For thrust without drama = 911 Turbo (and some others as well, I'm sure fit the bill).
The GT3 is certainly interesting but it too is rev happy beast which in an of itself certainly is not a bad thing, it would be more of the same (it exists as a high revving, thinly veiled racer that is street legal) given the onset of meaningful and then maximum torque. I initially thought of it but rather quickly let the idea slide.
The 991 chassis with AWD is nice standard bearer but for me, bring the power on lower in the rpm range and give me lots of it. Short shift a 400 HP NA C4S engine with out kicking it into a lower gear if PDK (perhaps more easily demonstrated in a manual) and do the same in a turbo and you will get my drift. I am not talking about lugging an engine from idle, but say 2000 RPM and up. An argument of "just downshift, stupid" is not valid to me. A torquey engine does not NEED that much shifting but will also respond to it, should I wish a max performance takeoff (I will sometimes indulge) or should I go 'a 'tracking (not saying I will). A torquey forced induction engine as in the Turbo will still make better than really good power either way. Forced induction is likely the best bet to get the sensory experience I want. As previously admitted, I made an error in purchase by not having a longer demo period in which to decide. My hope is for anyone in a similar selection process to take these words into consideration and if you still love the NA engine, FANTASTIC and congratulations! You have found your car. If this thread helps one person from a situation like mine then it is a cheap lesson for them indeed, costing but a bit of reading time. Judging by PM's I have met that goal easily.
I fear there are a few who have mistakenly taken my views and preferences in power delivery as an indictment of the 991C4S and have taken it as a personal slight. They would be very wrong as I speak for MY tastes and not whether another's ideas are right or wrong.
As an aside for a couple sniping jibes from someone that does not care for me as a person, I have been called worse by better. If you do not care for my observations, great, that is what discussion is about. That is what the back button is for on the keyboard. I expect better from the contributors here. Almost universally, my expectations are usually exceeded here. Thanks for that.
Attempts at personal attacks are pretty infantile and only serve to identify children amongst Porsche automotive enthusiasts. Substantive comments either way are welcome and encouraged.
Be safe and hopes all have a fine evening.
Patty
P.S. - I reread my post and saw something that may have possibly taken out of context-
"You are right in the comment about the M5 and by extent also an Audi S6, RS7 or S8 as they are AWD/Quattro (we are now on our 14th Audi Quattro). I would buy, right now, an RS6 Avant but until AoA sees fit to offer that here that is but a pipe dream. The RS7 is pretty much the same excepting for the body aft of the b pillar and we do prefer greatly the AWD Avant/Estate body style for an all around automobile. An S8 as a long distance cruiser is a very real possibility in leu of the RS6 Avant. Talk about scary levels of depreciation, look no further than an 8 series Audi though. Definitely a car to buy CPO.
None of these are sports cars however capable they are given their size."
The "None of these are sports cars" was meant about the Audis and BMW mentioned in the sense of their size and 4 (+ in some cases) doors. Sports Sedans, heck yes, Sports Wagon/Estate/Whatever, heck yes! I was not diminishing them at all. I really like them!
Last edited by achildofthesky; 01-05-2014 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Clarity of though.
12-28-2013, 08:18 PM
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12-28-2013, 08:20 PM
#42
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C4S
I am in between a 997TT 6 speed and a 991TTS (waiting on someone else to take that first depreciation hit). I am one week into a '14 C4S ownership. So far, I like the car and am anxious to learn more. It is fast and a pleasant alternative. However, only a forced induction car can give you that torque surge kick in the pants.
Be safe
Patty
12-28-2013, 08:24 PM
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C4S...
True. Although this case is extreme, there are lots of Porsches on the market that are less than a year old. I talked to a Porsche salesman about this a couple years ago, and he told me that hardly a month goes by before a Porsche owner comes to his dealership, looking to trade-in their almost new car for something else. He attributed this to two factors: most Porsche owners have a great deal of disposable income, and in many cases a Porsche is an impulse purchase.
The salesman told me that Porsche dealers love to buy these almost new cars because they typically make a far greater profit on their sale than they do on new cars.
The salesman told me that Porsche dealers love to buy these almost new cars because they typically make a far greater profit on their sale than they do on new cars.
Thanks and be safe
Patty
12-28-2013, 08:28 PM
#44
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C4S...
I bought the 4S for the wider hips, the cool red light bar across the back and the 'slightly better feeling steering' (according to some reviews). Where I live it rains a lot and we have a lot of hills. In normal driving, having the front wheels help out a bit makes the car just a bit more fun as I can use more of the performance, more of the time.
I do agree with the OP, I think modern Porsches (apart from the Turbo) often just feel 'nippy' for regular road driving (ie: rarely going above ~5,000rpm). It's quite easy to catch them out and have to wait for the engine to rev for a bit - or the gearbox to change down a gear or two and then everyone for 1/2 mile thinks you are being an *** when they hear the exhaust.... I really dislike having to push the 'Sport' button *every* time I get in the car, or the poor gear ratios designed to separate models, or the low rev lethargy and lack of torque designed to squeeze one or two mpg more out of the standard tests...
Reviews like Motor Trends' are done on a closed road course, or a track - which is where a lot of other reviews are written. I agree, in the last 2,000rpm or so, and on a track, 991's feel awesome, it's just it's not often you can appreciate this performance on the road. :-(
Andy
I do agree with the OP, I think modern Porsches (apart from the Turbo) often just feel 'nippy' for regular road driving (ie: rarely going above ~5,000rpm). It's quite easy to catch them out and have to wait for the engine to rev for a bit - or the gearbox to change down a gear or two and then everyone for 1/2 mile thinks you are being an *** when they hear the exhaust.... I really dislike having to push the 'Sport' button *every* time I get in the car, or the poor gear ratios designed to separate models, or the low rev lethargy and lack of torque designed to squeeze one or two mpg more out of the standard tests...
Reviews like Motor Trends' are done on a closed road course, or a track - which is where a lot of other reviews are written. I agree, in the last 2,000rpm or so, and on a track, 991's feel awesome, it's just it's not often you can appreciate this performance on the road. :-(
Andy
Be safe
Patty
12-28-2013, 10:05 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Honestly, you're not the only one I've heard have these types of feelings on the 991. It's pretty well documented that many people feel the 991's (non-GT3 or TT's) gearing is too tall. Perhaps shorter gearing would have given you that feeling you'd been hoping for. Also, many reviewers have spoken about cars getting so good at what they do, they lose that visceral feeling that many hope will be there when purchasing a sports car. I agree with you 100% that sometimes you get something that you really like, but it just isn't quite all you'd hoped for. If I'm craving Mexican food, I can go to a fantastic Indian restaurant and have wonderful food. But it just won't quite hit the spot. In this case, you got a wonderful car, but it just didn't quite hit the spot for you. Nothing wrong with that and the people who think otherwise really need to check themselves. I love chocolate, but others' do not. I'm not going to call them stupid for it, just turns out their tastes are different than mine. Now, with all this food talk, I'm getting hungry! Good luck on finding the right car for you and I do agree, it actually sounds like the TT/TTS is what you're seeking. Hopefully it is exactly what you're looking for in a car once you get one. Happy Motoring and have a great weekend.