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Hola Eduardo,
As with most of the members of this forum, your help was crucial in configuring my new 911 of which I took delivery on 5th January 2015. Its been almost 9 months of sheer enjoyment that now I would like to share with all of you by posting some pictures of 3 of the 4 911’s that I have owned over the past 30 years, with the only exception of a C2 996 Cabrio of which I cant find any photographs.
Starting with the current one, this is the result of our (you and the members of the forum, and I) combined effort in custom ordering a MY2015 991 C4S in Agate Grey with Cognac and Expresso interior. Many thanks and keep up your fantastic work!
Saludos desde España,
JM
De nada! Just gorgeous JM!
***
Originally Posted by Werks 1
HERE IS MY 2016 TARGA GTS...PICKED UP TODAY......I HOPE YOU LIKE IT!
For me it's the just the right amount of "red", and adds a nice pop of color with the top down.
Still a little unsure of the black center console cover where it transitions to the red center tunnel in the back, but it's a trade off. I do like how the seat backs are covered in the red leather though.
I believe once they offered the dual tone red interior option they discontinued the ability to just order the seats deviated that are in ours.
Currently leasing mine, so have a tough decision on what to do at the end, as I really like the color combo.
Originally Posted by Z356
Congratulations, Larry. Glad I could be of minor help on this matter after you found the car for sale
as a traded-in/pre-owned at Mercedes of Santa Rosa. And I am glad you were able to meet Brett at
Sonnen before you drove it back home to Southern California. It is an unusual build with those 'red'
seats...which I think are just awesome! You will not find many builds like this, so this is a great find!
For the information of others reading this post, below is the link to the original thread where we
discussed this particular vehicle when it was for sale new at Sonnen back in December of 2013:
Enjoy it in good health and I hope to see you at some Porsche function in the future!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Presently in Seattle
.
Originally Posted by LDV
All -
After a long search for a uniquely configured (pre-owned) 991S, I finally drove home in this car. Originally configured by Brett Payne, at Sonnen Porsche, the car was posted by Edouardo awhile back as an example of creative configurations for red interiors that are tasteful (subjective, of course).
Thanks to Edouardo, for providing background on the car before I bought it. I drove through Marin and spent some time with Brett (who also showed me his stunning 991).
I have the build list, but it can also be found back in this thread, posted by Edouardo.
Apologies but I don't have any good pictures of the red contrast stitching, which runs all around the car (doors, dash, rear, steering column). Will add soon.
Cheers
PS: I received a "gift" from the California Highway Patrol about 90 minutes into my drive home. Great start
Meanwhile, Volkswagen is denying that it used cheat software in its 3.0-liter TDI engines.
“Volkswagen AG wishes to emphasize that no software has been installed in the 3-liter V6
diesel power units to alter emissions characteristics in a forbidden manner,” the automaker
said in a statement released today in response to the EPA’s allegations.
It's about damn time that Volkswagen starts defending itself using the tools available to it via
our legal system! Deny, deny, deny and fight it with an army of lawyers until you reach a legal
settlement with the EPA & the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Go back to what I wrote
in an earlier post about the VW official that admitted to the EPA & CARB that they were cheating.
Who in his right mind would do that? Was this the work of a disgruntled employee? Or someone
trying to tank the value of the stock & profit from it?
This VW official in question should be put before a firing squad & shot. If nothing else for terminal
stupidity & wanton disregard for the rules of the game. In the annals of modern business history,
this 'VW Scandal' episode will be one taught at all MBA schools as a case study for the next one
hundred years. And the lessors learned from this case at the Wharton & Harvard Business School
is not how well VW handled this affair, but rather what NOT TO DO if you or your company ever
finds itself in the same tough bind as VW did over 'Dieselgate'!
Hello!
I am trying to find out what the colour reference of this blue 911 3.2 from 1986 is.The car was delivered new from the factory in November 1986, so I guess this is a MY1987. Any help would be more than welcome. Many thanks in advance.
JM
Hello!
I am trying to find out what the colour reference of this blue 911 3.2 from 1986 is.The car was delivered new from the factory in November 1986, so I guess this is a MY1987. Any help would be more than welcome. Many thanks in advance.
JM
JM:
Always hard to judge from photographs. Does it have a slight 'purple' tint under certain light conditions?
If it does...one of the 'Metallic Colors' offered by Porsche in MY1987 was 'Prussian Blue Metallic':
Or it could be some special custom PTS hue. I take it you don't have access to, or have found, some sort
of color code sticker in the chassis itself.
***
In your photos the color looks too dark of a metallic to be 'Venetian Blue'.
It looks a little dark for Venetian.
Plus, Eduardo's almost never wrong.
I think Sloan had pics of a Prussian Blue car on their website a while back as well.
You both seem to be right, Eduardo and Keadog. I have checked both Prussian and Venetian Blue and certainly it is not the later but could well be the former. Thanks a lot.
JM
Re: PTS Approved List - Now Confidential & For Internal Use Only
I just posted this on the PTS Reference thread at the 991 gt3 forum,
and I think it's worth re-posting here for all of you to read & know
what is going on:
*** Let me respond using comments in 'RED':
Originally Posted by Less than3mph
Eduardo, I just noticed your post in the GT4 forum.
IMO this is a pretty big deal, no? Why would Porsche want to withhold this information on PTS approved
colours from its customers? PTS has grown immensely popular precisely because we are now able to identify
colours that appeal to us while bypassing the usual months long approval process. And this is absolutely
critical for buyers of GT cars, where interest in PTS has probably peaked the fastest, and where the window
of opportunity is fleeting.
Yes, it's unfortunate. And could signified a decidedly turn in direction for PTS at Porsche. It's a warning
aimed squarely at what we are trying to do here at Rennlist with an information campaigned that started
back in July of 2012. Here is what I set to do and announced it on my first post of each thread:
"This thread's purpose is to shed some light into the sometimes opaque world of 'Porsche Exclusive'.
And to disseminate some of information I have gained from past Porsche ordering experiences and
current research into custom ordering a 991...I hope this thread lifts the veil on some of the custom
ordering process at Porsche and helps some of you achieve the perfect 991 spec! I am not affiliated
with PAG, PCNA or any dealer, so all of this is being done is the spirit of 'Liebe Zu Ihm'."
And these threads have grown in interest beyond belief. For example, the 'custom ordering' thread
on the 991 forum has now over 279K views:
*
The one at the 981 forum has over 89K views:
*
This one, which is not even a 'Sticky', has over 110K views!
* And what these figures don't show are the nearly 1700 private messages and countless emails I have
received & answered regarding PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive' options via Rennlist!
So it's hard to make the case that we have not moved the needle on PTS! We have made a big impact.
There has been a decisive movement/shift in orders for Paint to Sample since we started explaining to
the Porsche enthusiast community how Paint to Sample works and emphasize/highlight the beautiful,
out-of-the-ordinary colors available to them via this option on their custom Porsches.
Any idea on the motivation behind this policy? When was this change conveyed to you?
It was conveyed to me via verbal & emails reports I got back from Porsche customers in Europe this
last summer. It was confirmed when I received the last approved PTS list dated July 2015 with the
large print 'For Internal Use Only - Confidential' in early September.
I'm a little surprised that you haven't reported more widely on this turn of events and also that you're
not actively circumventing efforts to suppress this information. Or maybe I just missed that whole
conversation.
No, I have not drawn attention to it in any big way because I am trying to convince PAG, privately via
my direct contacts at PCNA & PAG, to reverse that policy which categorized the PTS list as 'Confidential'.
That decision, in my opinion, is counter-productive. The interest in PTS is real & substantial. PAG can
quantify the numbers of customers that have asked for PTS in MY2012, MY2013, MY2014, MY2015 and
MY2016...and they can see the handwriting on the wall! It's up, up & up. And they also know they have
denied a good portion of these requests due to logistical & physical limitations in the number of PTS they
are prepared to do each year. So no only they are missing on the opportunity to cash in on PTS to its full
potential, but PAG's inability to meet PTS demand is also creating frustration & resentment among their
most enthusiastic & ready-to-spend money affluent customers! That, in the long run, is not a recipe for
success. And I am quietly trying them to reverse course.
Please let us know what you think this means for the future of how PTS will operate.
Not good if they stubbornly stick to their guns and keep the approved PTS list confidential from now on.
Because the PTS window is currently closed for what is left of MY2016 (or so it appears unless they allow
it on these recent last-minute gt4 & RS allocations), I thought I had a bit of time to fight the battle in
private with PCNA & PAG. But the PTS window on MY2017 will open shortly. And if we follow PAG's
directives as they stand today, we will not be privy to future PTS approved list information unless folks
in the know violate PAG's wishes. Given the role I have chosen to take as a conduit for information on
PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive', that has indeed put me on a difficult spot.
Thanks again for all your help with PTS, and I'm hoping you can break through to PAG on behalf of
those of us who really appreciate the incredible option that PTS is. And here's hoping you are able
to do what you've always attempted to do--that is, keep the lines of communication between us
and them open and transparent.
Thank you Daniel for the well wishes. I'll need them. I have communicated to the appropriate executives
at Porsche in the US and Germany my desire for more, not less, transparency of information on how PTS
works at PAG. And I think those feelings mirror the views of Rennlisters I know here. Hopefully, Porsche
will let me know soon how PAG wants to handle PTS going forward. It will be either with optimism & a
commitment to devote more resources to try to satisfy their client's basic PTS demands. Or they will try
to go backwards, to how PTS was run previously in the 996 & 997 era, with opaqueness, smoke, mirrors
& veils !
Let's hope they choose the former...but ultimately it's their company & they will run it as they see fit.
Ian & I had this exchange at the 981 'Custom Ordering' thread which I think its useful to repeat here!
***
Originally Posted by Schmidts Cat
Eduardo, Porsche seems to be the best in the business when it comes to cashing in on consumers desire for bespoke customization.
But is it possible that, PTS is actually underpriced, and that it is a legacy policy that worked well for a small company but is no longer
viable for a large company? Is the "cost" to them in the disruption of logistics just too high? Was this option always a gift to the faithful,
and a loss that was worth the trouble? Until so many people decided to to do it, it was likely bearable, but has become impossible at their
current scale? We the customers have no real idea of the actual cost to Porsche or the havoc it wreaks internally. Just a theory....
Ian: Yes, I agree its a very real possibility. I have been talking that PTS is underpriced at Porsche for a very long time. Here are excerpts
from a post I wrote back in 8/19/2014 at the 991 gt3 forum:
"As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality
Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical &
financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those
special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special
options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense.
The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at
the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical
issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting
reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money,
on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the
ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition.
That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining
about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion."
Steven has valid points which I would like to address. And I am also adding
some additional bits of information & my personal opinion to the mix so that
others can make up their own minds on this topic. My comments will be in
'RED' or 'BLUE'.
Originally Posted by Steven_H
I suspect that one reason for Porsche's reluctance to be more 'transparent' is
their attitude toward PTS. In the recent past - 3 years ago - PTS cars were very
limited, there was no 'approved' list, and ordering a car PTS was difficult and
oblique. In this way, Porsche was able to maintain the 'exclusive' aspect of program.
That may have been the results but not the intent. I'll explain further below.
***
I think Porsche Exclusives began in 1986 in Germany
Correct. 'Porsche Exclusive', as we know it today, was founded in 1986.
***
and I believe it was Sasha who convinced Porsche to open an
Exclusives department in the US, with initially only him in California
and later Melissa on the East Coast.
Sascha Glaeser, who recently left his employment at Porsche, indeed
staffed the initial dedicated 'Porsche Exclusive' effort in the US. He
devised the business case for ‘International Customer Consultation’
& got it approved. But he actually arrived in the US to do that job in
February 2011...so fairly recently. Not by coincidence, I started posting
about what one could do via 'Porsche Exclusive' not long after that in
September of 2011:
Most dealers were relatively unaware of what was possible. My sense
it was based on the Special Wishes (Sonderwunsche) department at
the factory which began in the early 1950s and pretty much served the
Porsche family, Near Eastern collectors and friends of the factory.
This is very true. Porsche has been doing 'Special Wishes' for customers
from just about the very start of the company. I once had a 1960 356
Roadster with a special kill switch from factory that was not on the option's
list. And you might remember that I often talk about Porsche's MY1970 color
offerings, which set a record at 9 regular colors & 21 'special colors' for a
choice of 30. But even with this array of choices, Porsche still allowed
1.3% of production in MY1970 to be paint to sample orders! So of the
over 15,000 911s & 914-6 built, nearly 200 cars were PTS in 1970!
But the official 'Sonderwunsche Programm', as the department came to
be known, did not officially start until 1978.
And in 1986, it's name was changed to 'Porsche Exclusive' and it celebrated
it's 25th Anniversary in 2011!
***
These rare cars were VERY special with modified bodywork, outrageous
interiors, etc. Costs of the modifications often exceeded $100k. My instinct
is that Porsche is not particularly interested in significantly expanding their
Exclusives department - rather it is something of a 'halo' operation.
Yes, one could get that idea from the many obstacles they seem to place in
the path of ordering these special & rare options. But that is probably not
how PAG perceives it. From Feb 2011 to May 2014, the period in which
Sascha Glaeser headed 'Porsche Exclusive' for PCNA, he reported that
vehicle option revenue increased by $3.75M and his department's target
goals were exceeded 25% for each of 2011 & 2012...and over 50% in
2013! So Porsche thinks of 'Porsche Exclusive' as a profit center and
is counting on its continued growth to reach its profitability goals here
& all other ROW markets!
***
My other instinct is that Porsche loses money on every PTS car - the
costs of testing, changing all the paint systems for a (very) few cars,
not to mention the all too time consuming process of ordering a Porsche
Exclusives car. Many people spend inordinate time NOT ordering a car.
Having ordered two PTS cars in unique colors and with lengthy Exclusives
options, I am enormously respectful and appreciative of what is a hugely
time consuming process for Porsche. And after reading the Forbes article,
I was reminded of the inordinate difficulty of convincing vendors to provide
unique versions of parts for only a few cars.
I don't really know for certain, but I have been speculating for years now
that PTS is a relative bargain and its cost to us doesn't reflect the potential
headaches to PAG, in terms of logistical planning & paint warranty issues
that could develop down the road. Here are excerpts from a post I wrote
back in 8/19/2014 at the 991 gt3 forum:
"
As an aside, if you think 'White' is hard to match on the plastic bumper of a gt3, imagine PAG's Quality
Control engineers or the bean counters in their Warranty Department enormous concern (technical &
financial) for matching PTS colors on those bumpers and avoiding this type of warranty issues on those
special custom-paint cars!!!! If you look it from their perspective, they would cancel PTS and CXX special
options in a nano-second. That PTS is still alive at Porsche is a miracle...regardless the $5500 expense.
The engineers and accountants would rather not take the risk of the warranty claims. And if you look at
the expense of feasibility study for color, PTS paint ordering & handling process, the additional logistical
issues involved in coordinating all the painted parts that goes into a vehicle (e.g. a gt3) and the accounting
reserves in case of warranty claims, PAG might be able to make the case they break even, or lose money,
on each PTS order they sell! What they gain by PTS is not profit...but the ability to satisfy a client with the
ultimate personal customization of his/her vehicle, something which is not often offered by the competition.
That is the key benefit of PTS & 'Porsche Exclusive'. Remember all of this when you hear folks complaining
about the 'high cost' of PTS at Porsche...it's a bargain in my opinion."
Finally, 'Exclusives' becomes an oxymoron when it becomes common.
Maybe. But Porsche's stated goal is to grow 'Porsche Exclusive' & not
keep it that 'exclusive'. The new manager of PCNA's 'Porsche Exclusive'
in the United States, Barbara Boeckenhoff, has an even bigger budget
for 2016...and has hired two additional staff members for its Beverly
Hills 'showroom' in addition to retaining Melissa Witek in Atlanta.
And 'Porsche Exclusive' is expanding in other ROW markets, such as
the Middle East with folks there like Torsten Horn! So, whether it comes
as a surprise to some or not, 'Porsche Exclusive' is growing! And I
don't see it becoming once again 'oblique' or 'veiled' anytime soon!
It's not like Porsche is not heavily advertising 'Porsche Exclusive' or
anything like that. In fact, it's just the opposite:
How many are aware that Mercedes offers Paint to Sample, for example?
Well, I have an even more important question to ask. How many
here know that 'Paint to Sample' is not part of 'Porsche Exclusive'?
It is not. So the 800 pound gorilla in the room present in this conversation
is 'Paint to Sample' which we always associate and mixed in with 'Porsche
Exclusive'. PTS is not run, organized, managed or controlled by 'Porsche
Exclusive'. It's is under separate management. And that is why I am
asking Porsche to let me have access to the people that run it and get
their perspective as to why they run it in the manner they currently do.
And also how they are planning to meet increased demand in the future.
***
Mercedes, BMW, Audi, to name just a few, do indeed offer its own PTS
program to their customers. But demand for it is just a small fraction
of the requests for this option at Porsche. And the reasons for that
smaller demand are many:
1) The size/shape of their vehicles often do not lend themselves to
unusual and/or bright colors!
2) Few auto manufactures have the iconic color period that Porsche
experienced in the late 1960's/early 1970's which define a sport car era!
3) Few manufacturers have enthusiast websites like Rennlist with
up-to-the-minute information on PTS (e.g. this thread for example)
like we provide that is helping drive the interest up on this rare option!
Thanks for the thread. I am now left wishing that the dealer I had ordered through had been a bit more knowledgeable about "Porsche exclusives". But perhaps I just didn't ask the right questions.
Thanks for the thread. I am now left wishing that the dealer I had ordered through had been a bit more knowledgeable about "Porsche exclusives". But perhaps I just didn't ask the right questions.
Good luck figuring out what those questions are. Sometimes they (dealers) just don't know. Last summer (2014) I was working with a sales associate who had been with Porsche for 25 years, at one of the largest dealerships in the country (Scottsdale). I was in an email discussion where I was asking her about options and PTS colors. She asked me 'What's PTS?'
There *may* be SA's out there that know more about PTS & Porsche Exclusive than Eduardo here on RL... but they are few and far between.
There *may* be SA's out there that know more about PTS & Porsche Exclusive than Eduardo here on RL... but they are few and far between.
Very UNlikely ... There is a lot of turnover at most dealerships, and from what it looks like PAG hasn't done a great job making all the info readily available and easy to comprehend. Even long time dealership employees really don't get into it too much or care.
You pretty much have to make a full time job out of it like Eduardo, and even then there are many unknowns
Very UNlikely ... There is a lot of turnover at most dealerships, and from it looks like PAG hadn't done a great job making all the info readily available and easy to comprehend. Even long time dealership employees really don't get into it too much or care.
You pretty much have to make a full time job out of it like Eduardo, and even then there are many unknowns
I believe you are correct. I have been bugging him off and on for quite a while to write the coffee table book that shows a picture of every color car Porsche has produced.
No luck so far, even though I promised to buy a copy.
10-31-2015, 04:09 PM
