Negative Nancy's.....
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 413
After driving a 993 and then a 991 S back to back I can unequivocally state that the 911 is completely dead and other than the styling cues and engine location - labeling them as the same model car is farcical.
The 993 embodies everything I grew up loving about Porsche while the 991 embodies government regulations, profits, Asian tech buyer styling, and gaudy luxury GT.
Porsche made the 991 for conquest sales - not for 911 owners.
Note: I'm also a huge 997 fan and the Carrera GTS appeared to have even more visual presence than the 991 as well...
The 993 embodies everything I grew up loving about Porsche while the 991 embodies government regulations, profits, Asian tech buyer styling, and gaudy luxury GT.
Porsche made the 991 for conquest sales - not for 911 owners.
Note: I'm also a huge 997 fan and the Carrera GTS appeared to have even more visual presence than the 991 as well...
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 192
Likes: 80
Porsche was under fire again this week as British car journalists launched a series of uncompromising attacks on the quality of the new 911’s radio.
‘In one fell swoop they have ruined their most iconic model,’ raged Trent Hammer of Dab Of Oppo magazine. ‘They probably think it’s better to have a radio that sounds clear, but a 911 isn’t a 911 unless the radio is crackly.’
This criticism was echoed by Tred Shuffel of Firm Motorist magazine. ‘Porsche probably believes a normal radio that unobtrusively plays music is somehow better,’ he wrote. ‘They are plain wrong. A 911 should have a radio that is distracting and keeps hissing, just as 911 radios have since the 1960s.’
‘We are sorry that British car journalists feel this way,’ said Porsche’s head of audio systems, Dr Wolf Teeshirt. ‘I can assure them that the 991 radio installation is of the highest quality and it was tested extensively on Nurburgring FM.’
Nonetheless, Porsche has promised that in future it will calibrate all of its radios to suit the tastes of people who borrow its cars for a week rather than actual customers who pay money for them.
‘In one fell swoop they have ruined their most iconic model,’ raged Trent Hammer of Dab Of Oppo magazine. ‘They probably think it’s better to have a radio that sounds clear, but a 911 isn’t a 911 unless the radio is crackly.’
This criticism was echoed by Tred Shuffel of Firm Motorist magazine. ‘Porsche probably believes a normal radio that unobtrusively plays music is somehow better,’ he wrote. ‘They are plain wrong. A 911 should have a radio that is distracting and keeps hissing, just as 911 radios have since the 1960s.’
‘We are sorry that British car journalists feel this way,’ said Porsche’s head of audio systems, Dr Wolf Teeshirt. ‘I can assure them that the 991 radio installation is of the highest quality and it was tested extensively on Nurburgring FM.’
Nonetheless, Porsche has promised that in future it will calibrate all of its radios to suit the tastes of people who borrow its cars for a week rather than actual customers who pay money for them.
Could not agree more. Just like the user above me.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 312
I owned a 993 for 11 years it was my third one. As much as I loved that car my 991 would hide from it. I also owned a 07 and 08 turbo and a 11 GT3RS. I prefer the 991 to all. I will buy a 991 turbo. If you prefer an earlier version buy one. Mean while I will haul you know what it my 991.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 319
Likes: 37
Not for me
Got to a 3.4 manual base car 7 speed over the weekend. I currently drive an 05 6speed carrera. I did not like it at all.
-- steering was numb compared to 997. I miss the twitchy go cart feel. Thats what a 911 is supposed to be.
-- did not like seating position.Felt like a 928 s4 i had. No forward facing feel. Miss the openess of my car in the interior.
-- the engine felt sluggish even in sport mode. Dont know if the gearing had something to do with it. Mine felt more responsive.
-- also like seeing the flat front, no fenders when driving
overall is car was smooth but felt blahh. The interior was good quality as was the rest of the car. I have had numerous older aircooled 911/turbos and always felt the 997 provided a similar feel with plenty of creature comforts, the perfect 911.
i may try to find a 2010 GT3 as a keeper. The 911 series ended at the 997 at least for me it did.
thanks but no thanks
-- steering was numb compared to 997. I miss the twitchy go cart feel. Thats what a 911 is supposed to be.
-- did not like seating position.Felt like a 928 s4 i had. No forward facing feel. Miss the openess of my car in the interior.
-- the engine felt sluggish even in sport mode. Dont know if the gearing had something to do with it. Mine felt more responsive.
-- also like seeing the flat front, no fenders when driving
overall is car was smooth but felt blahh. The interior was good quality as was the rest of the car. I have had numerous older aircooled 911/turbos and always felt the 997 provided a similar feel with plenty of creature comforts, the perfect 911.
i may try to find a 2010 GT3 as a keeper. The 911 series ended at the 997 at least for me it did.
thanks but no thanks
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,718
Likes: 15
From: The Arctic Cold
compare old price versus new price and the new extra's are "Free" anyway you look at it.. you still get the rest of the car AND ipod/nav
remember before it was 4k for nav, and then EXTRA for ipod, extra for several other options too.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,778
Likes: 5
From: New Zealand massive
they are free considering you had to pay for them last year.
compare old price versus new price and the new extra's are "Free" anyway you look at it.. you still get the rest of the car AND ipod/nav
remember before it was 4k for nav, and then EXTRA for ipod, extra for several other options too.
compare old price versus new price and the new extra's are "Free" anyway you look at it.. you still get the rest of the car AND ipod/nav
remember before it was 4k for nav, and then EXTRA for ipod, extra for several other options too.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 413
Got to a 3.4 manual base car 7 speed over the weekend. I currently drive an 05 6speed carrera. I did not like it at all.
-- steering was numb compared to 997. I miss the twitchy go cart feel. Thats what a 911 is supposed to be.
-- did not like seating position.Felt like a 928 s4 i had. No forward facing feel. Miss the openess of my car in the interior.
-- the engine felt sluggish even in sport mode. Dont know if the gearing had something to do with it. Mine felt more responsive.
-- also like seeing the flat front, no fenders when driving
overall is car was smooth but felt blahh. The interior was good quality as was the rest of the car. I have had numerous older aircooled 911/turbos and always felt the 997 provided a similar feel with plenty of creature comforts, the perfect 911.
i may try to find a 2010 GT3 as a keeper. The 911 series ended at the 997 at least for me it did.
thanks but no thanks
-- steering was numb compared to 997. I miss the twitchy go cart feel. Thats what a 911 is supposed to be.
-- did not like seating position.Felt like a 928 s4 i had. No forward facing feel. Miss the openess of my car in the interior.
-- the engine felt sluggish even in sport mode. Dont know if the gearing had something to do with it. Mine felt more responsive.
-- also like seeing the flat front, no fenders when driving
overall is car was smooth but felt blahh. The interior was good quality as was the rest of the car. I have had numerous older aircooled 911/turbos and always felt the 997 provided a similar feel with plenty of creature comforts, the perfect 911.
i may try to find a 2010 GT3 as a keeper. The 911 series ended at the 997 at least for me it did.
thanks but no thanks
Good luck with the search for your GT3!
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Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 413
The inclusion is competition driven - how many other 85k cars don't have standard Navigation? Frankly I would be more impressed with an option to take out that gaudy looking screen in the first place...
I owned a 993 for 11 years it was my third one. As much as I loved that car my 991 would hide from it. I also owned a 07 and 08 turbo and a 11 GT3RS. I prefer the 991 to all. I will buy a 991 turbo. If you prefer an earlier version buy one. Mean while I will haul you know what it my 991.
Makes perfect sense -- the 991 series feels disposable in every sense of the word and the 993 has looked and felt like a modern classic since the day it was released...No doubt you'll quickly move on from your 991 Turbo as well to the next new thing...
Since all you're concerned about is "hauling ***" perhaps you should consider the 2013 GT500 -- it also has numb EPS steering but 650hp and will "hide" from your 991.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
I find it amazing the number of people who obviously dislike the 991,that hang out in the 991 forum. After a post or two it is obvious who these people are and most of their talking points have been heard. So why continue to post in this forum? Is it to punish buyers who do own the 991?
At some point we all get it. Perhaps actual owners would like to have a common area to talk about the model itself without the constant reminder that these folks are mad, upset over Porsche new direction.
There are some discussion that have merit and those I have no problem with, it's the constant parroting that gets annoying. Of course this is all just wishful thinking as this stuff happens on every car forum on the net.
Now if you'll excuse me...
I think I'm going to go over to the PDK section and discuss how much I dislike PDK and then get angry when they disagree.
At some point we all get it. Perhaps actual owners would like to have a common area to talk about the model itself without the constant reminder that these folks are mad, upset over Porsche new direction.
There are some discussion that have merit and those I have no problem with, it's the constant parroting that gets annoying. Of course this is all just wishful thinking as this stuff happens on every car forum on the net.
Now if you'll excuse me...
I think I'm going to go over to the PDK section and discuss how much I dislike PDK and then get angry when they disagree.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 413
I find it amazing the number of people who obviously dislike the 991,that hang out in the 991 forum. After a post or two it is obvious who these people are and most of their talking points have been heard. So why continue to post in this forum? Is it to punish buyers who do own the 991?
At some point we all get it. Perhaps actual owners would like to have a common area to talk about the model itself without the constant reminder that these folks are mad, upset over Porsche new direction.
There are some discussion that have merit and those I have no problem with, it's the constant parroting that gets annoying. Of course this is all just wishful thinking as this stuff happens on every car forum on the net.
Now if you'll excuse me...
I think I'm going to go over to the PDK section and discuss how much I dislike PDK and then get angry when they disagree.
At some point we all get it. Perhaps actual owners would like to have a common area to talk about the model itself without the constant reminder that these folks are mad, upset over Porsche new direction.
There are some discussion that have merit and those I have no problem with, it's the constant parroting that gets annoying. Of course this is all just wishful thinking as this stuff happens on every car forum on the net.
Now if you'll excuse me...
I think I'm going to go over to the PDK section and discuss how much I dislike PDK and then get angry when they disagree.
"At some point we all get it. Perhaps actual owners would like to have a common area to talk about the model itself without the constant reminder that these folks are mad, upset over Porsche new direction."
Perhaps if those individuals are capable of affording a new 991 - they should be equally capable of staying out of this thread if it bothers them so much?
"After a post or two it is obvious who these people are and most of their talking points have been heard."
Right - because you're so above it all
I've got a very simple solution. If you don't want to read negative things about the 991 - stay out of the thread titled "negative nancy's" or threads with similar negative subject connotations...Seems like an incredibly simple idea to me...
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,121
Likes: 488
From: Ny
My biggest question after reading and commenting this thread remains...Is Porsche listening?
And here I'm not referring only to this forum,but to all means of communication between Porsche and their customers.
And I think what's more important,if Porsche did their research among potential customers before launching the 991.
IMO I think they did and they're still listening right now one way or the other. But,as any profitable business,sometimes you have to make some tough calls in order to remain profitable,with the risk of upsetting some of your loyal customers.
I'm not trying to defend Porsche,I'm just trying to put myself in their position and think how I would manage the situation.
Electric steering,making the car feel a lot more comfortable so it can be used as a DD by people that weren't considering a 911 fit in this category,attract more customers(as it's a well known fact,that for the last few years Porsche has been profitable because of their sales of Cayenne and more recently the Panamera) and in the same time keeping the legendary shape,increase performance to keep up with tough competition and most importantly qualify for the growing regulations are all steps Porsche had to take. Considering all that,I think Porsche did a pretty good job,don't you agree?
As for the purists,I'm sure Porsche will deliver with the GT models.
And here I'm not referring only to this forum,but to all means of communication between Porsche and their customers.
And I think what's more important,if Porsche did their research among potential customers before launching the 991.
IMO I think they did and they're still listening right now one way or the other. But,as any profitable business,sometimes you have to make some tough calls in order to remain profitable,with the risk of upsetting some of your loyal customers.
I'm not trying to defend Porsche,I'm just trying to put myself in their position and think how I would manage the situation.
Electric steering,making the car feel a lot more comfortable so it can be used as a DD by people that weren't considering a 911 fit in this category,attract more customers(as it's a well known fact,that for the last few years Porsche has been profitable because of their sales of Cayenne and more recently the Panamera) and in the same time keeping the legendary shape,increase performance to keep up with tough competition and most importantly qualify for the growing regulations are all steps Porsche had to take. Considering all that,I think Porsche did a pretty good job,don't you agree?
As for the purists,I'm sure Porsche will deliver with the GT models.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 97
From: great white north
I got to see one up close, didn't get a ride or drive it. It was white. I didn't like white on it.
I think the 20" wheels look to big. The engine lid is so small its there to only add fluids. The rear spoiler is much different then any of the older 911's. The sun roof looks horrible if fully opened.
The interior and adaptable sports seats are amazing. With exception to the horrible center console. Too many buttons and the lack of a hand brake.
I am glad it has dropped some weight and its a great luxury car. I am sure they will sell really well in China.
Waiting to see what they do with the GT version. I know the 991 is not for me. Maybe the Cayman will remain a pure sports car but then again it will be neutered and not much of a jump up from my current ride.
I think the 20" wheels look to big. The engine lid is so small its there to only add fluids. The rear spoiler is much different then any of the older 911's. The sun roof looks horrible if fully opened.
The interior and adaptable sports seats are amazing. With exception to the horrible center console. Too many buttons and the lack of a hand brake.
I am glad it has dropped some weight and its a great luxury car. I am sure they will sell really well in China.
Waiting to see what they do with the GT version. I know the 991 is not for me. Maybe the Cayman will remain a pure sports car but then again it will be neutered and not much of a jump up from my current ride.