Palmbeacher

I speak it for the same reason I speak three other languages besides my native one: where I grew up, being a polyglot is considered an essential hallmark of intelligence and culture. Assuming it one's birthright that everyone everywhere ought speak my native language is, like the Spelling Bee, peculiarly American. As to English being the language of "the world's most powerful nation", I'm sure Her Majesty would appreciate the sentiment

Palmbeacher

I disagree. There are a multitude of cars in that general price range that are tight as a tomb, if that's what you want. Some people wonder what was so wrong with the Carrera remaining a true sports car that doesn't insulate the driver from the act of motoring and then selectively offer him the choice of dialing it back in incrementally.

allegretto

Drove a 7-Cup for 2 yrs. I do not think that particular steering system would be good on a street car.

First, it's like a magic carpet vs. any system I've ever driven. Hyper-smooth with almost no feedback. You just watch the front end

Second, it is so "right now" fast that it takes some getting used to.

After getting out of a 6-Cup and into a 7, the differences are huge. It was kind of odd really. The front end was all visual, but of course that let you concentrate on the "action" wheels.

What would be nice is a sequential box, upshift at the apex and the car didn't even quiver... smoother than any box I've ever tracked with, including PDK!

allegretto

PB'er

please read my comment here;

https://rennlist.com/forums/9398268-post89.html

Carlo_Carrera

I think many people also don't realize that since the 991 also has a wider front track than the 997 that this will also make the steering "feel" different.

I still think my '85 Carrera had the best steering "feel" ever but I much happier driving my '01 TT.

Carrera GT

Always good to get first hand information, thanks. I guess that bursts the bubble on my dream of there being a bolt-in solution to swap out the rack and leave all the gadgets in place. Perhaps a 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0 steering rack? Well, I'm working on the delta to get from normal to "plus" steering. Dubious.

911SLOW

Interesting observation, sadly I don't have enough seat time in a 7 to dispute or confirm it.

In theory, it should be closer to the servo assisted 996 GT cars than the 997 GT street series with their variable steering ratio.

Perhaps our experienced Cup drivers can comment.

Nevertheless, not many of them complain about the steering, and I don't think that you can just blame the electric pump for the perceived differences in the driving feel.

For example if you take a 6, bypass the belt driven unit and add an electric pump for it with a manual on/off switch, nothing would change in the feedback but the added assistance.


Although the 997 Cup's steering and front axle shared 50% of their components with the last of the 996 Cup cars, and apart from the rack & pinion that came with electro-hydraulic assistance, the new front axle's geometry, width, suspension, sub-frame and wider tires (on the later MYs) were different and played their part.


As far as swapping any of those in a 991 is concerned, I don't believe it's feasible. It would be challenging on many fronts, mechanically wise and in bypassing the " closed loop" integrated electronics of the new car.

Last hope (small indeed) is the new GT3 and the new Cup generation.

Carrera GT

The GT3 is our last, great hope in many ways, not least of which will be the after-market shops like Sharkwerks to deliver "should have been factory" solutions and that will (hopefully) include steering from the 991 GT3 as a bolt-on to the Carrera. I have a somewhat depressing thought that the GT3 will arrive with an "ain't broke" assertion and its steering will be just the "plus" steering and we'll get the usual quotes of "just look at the ring times ... faster than the Carrera GT!" and "our test drivers, race drivers and Walter all agree the steering is superb!"

Taking a "glass half full" disposition, perhaps I'm optimistic, but it seems to me that someone has mistaken "heavy" for "sporty" in the steering. Get the car in the hands of a rally driver or two (I think they know at least one good rally driver ...) and let them give the car the feel of the 3.8RS steering, which I think should be a matter of little more than dialing back whatever software maps control the electric belt-drive motor gadgetry -- effectively giving the steering an extended stay at Cafe Nervosa to get fully over-caffeinated.

I don't think we'll ever see those days again when we could drive over a coin and say "heads" or "tails" but it would be nice to feel the shoulder of the tire ride against the edge of the berm at the apex and have that little snippet of data go directly to the subconscious.

ncamg

I have been checking out this thread for a while and find it interesting. I am no Porsche expert. In fact I have recently ordered my first Porsche, a 991 S cab. It is supposed to be built this week????? In the past I have driven both 911s and Boxsters as potential purchases and came away with another brand, usually Ms or AMGs. The reasons were varied but to some up my thinking at the time the Porsches had:

1. Too much steering feedback. This would be my DD and I also take weekend trips with it and I felt the steering would be tiring
2. The cab roof and wind blocker (except Boxster) were pretty backward compared to MB and BMW.
3. The interior just didn’t have up-to-date styling.

I know this is my opinion and I understand if others feel exactly the opposite way on these issues. In my mind all cars represent trade-offs. To me when I checked out the 991 all of these issues were resolved for me. In fact, I felt like the design trade-offs were aimed at me and were the ones I would have made if I designed the car. So the purchase decision was easy.

Now for my 02 cents worth. Porsche sells about 130,000 cars a year. Maybe 30,000 in the U.S. 911 sales have been slipping in recent years due to economic factors but also competition. There are many more luxury high performance GT cars today than 5 or 10 years ago. 400 to 500 hp is easy and 0-60 in the low 4s is standard. Now that Porsche is under VWs thumb it needs to increase sales. It needs to increase sales and market share of its bread and butter car the 911. To the older crowd that buys most of these cars the new 991 needs to display luxury, refinement and performance if it is going to sell to these customers. I know, I know, I was 30 once and I understand what the 997 people are talking about. However there are new economic realities that Porsche is dealing with. If it has to sell 200,000 vehicles 911 sales are going to have to double. I figure that Porsche feel that changing the trade-off balance to entice me won’t come with a big downside loss of sales to the traditional buyer. What options to you have? The 911 is still the closest GT to a sports car.

One other thought, I wonder how much of the reduced steering feel (997 speak) is due to the electric steering and how much is due to new geometry and a wider track?? Please don't go off on this new almost Porsche owner. This is just my opinion and my thoughts. Thanks.

abiazis

Wonder if Ferraris have these discussions?..........I know people panned the California and it is a pretty nice car...........whatever a buyer prefers is what should be the rule of enjoying a car............if the manufacturer makes something that is not liked by the consumer, then they are out of business................or do not realize enough critical mass to be consistently profitable..........

Carrera GT

The dialog between F-er's ranges from denial and oblivious disregard of costs and qualities to the same hard-edged dislike for the absurd prices and costs (and now depreciation) ... Brand F lost its devotee core with the F430 for a host of reasons and sentiment.

Carrera GT

From the sounds of your post here, you really should pause and consider the new Boxster. If you don't absolutely have to have those back seats and you appear to have no concern about 911 handling or rear-engine (or engine) the Boxster is shaping up to be a great car and you could well prefer it.


I would say the Box needs is another 100hp (it's now ridiculously hobbled and results in a rather absurd 0-62 time of 5 seconds +/- ... that's just a bit too silly for words.) The GT3 was basically 400 horses circa 2004 ... it's just absurd that the new 911S is at the same number close on a decade later. As often noted, it's not as if Porsche has ever been one to overstate specific power outputs and no Porsche has ever arrived with "too much" power (for its handling performance) so I think Porsche is losing business to their reluctance to bring it. Of course, numbers are just paperwork and the 911S in the real world is devilishly quick and I seem to recall it being comparable to the outgoing Turbo by virtue of improved PDK.

I'd be curious to see the real world data of a 3.8RS vs 991S. There's no question the 3.8 RS has it all over the 991S, but I imagine the comparison will be entertaining, especially in amateur hands. : )

ncamg

I don't need the rear seats and the Boxster would probably suit my needs except it is slow (0-60). What I have never understood is why they don't sell a $85-90K Boxster with 360-375 HP. I know they think it would eat into 911 non S sales but just make it as expensive!

Carrera GT

I tend to agree. In simple terms, the fundamentals of marketing "product/package/price" dictate that the product "value proposition" (in the case of Porsche it is the promise of performance far beyond anything you'll ever be able to reach) should not (must not?) overlap (conflict) with other products offering the same value. Second, the packaging (including perception of value) must not be contradictory (for Porsche, if there is no substitute, there at least better not be a substitute right there in the product family line-up) and finally in pricing, since consumers have no concept of value, cost or price (other than handed to them by the vendor) it's simply the price of a 911 that makes it "more" than than a Boxster. It's simply the price of a Tiffany if it's a diamond or a Cartier if it's a watch, but what's the perceived value of a Porsche branded car if it's more like a diamond or more like a wristwatch?) ... if you ever figure out real answers to these differences, you'll make a fortune in marketing ... or sell bottled water to nations dying of thirst when they could have bought water filtration equipment and irrigated their land on the cost of just a few months of bottled water and Coca Cola ...) But it's a "free" market, right? ... anyway ...

Porsche was lucky and smart (one or both, I don't know) to produce the Boxster, they were imbeciles to try to buy VW and sentence themselves to their own demise, and now they're futzing around with VW brand positioning instead of making the Boxster the entry-level to the best mid-engine line-up (which will apex with a 918 or the like) and exalting the 911 (including a forthcoming GT1) as the one and only unrivaled sports car on the planet, true to its origins and unbroken history of racing success, ever.

Carcam

I also think the new Boxster will be a very nice car (that could use a bit more power). I'm trying to talk my wife into one. She's driven a SL MB for years and is not crazy about the design of the new SL500. I think the Boxster is a big step up. With 375 hp it would be a blast and probably cut into 991 sales though.