PDCC: yes or no?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Southern California
Gary
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 957
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From: USA
This continues to astonish me. I have not seen a back to back test either.
Seems the mags have mostly been 'we drove the one with (or without) a few months ago, maybe one had PASM and the other SPASM', and yet we are comparing based on memory of 'feel', without any other metric. I, for one, would enjoy reading a proper, simultaneously carried out comparison.
What's the wager on the GT3 having it? Hoping we get to find out in Geneva. With all the spyshots, one would think there would have been a camera stuck inside a wheelhouse to see. But then again, I wonder how many of the "spy" shots are not just authorized, calculated leaks, which would of course show exactly what they would want them to show, or not show.
Seems the mags have mostly been 'we drove the one with (or without) a few months ago, maybe one had PASM and the other SPASM', and yet we are comparing based on memory of 'feel', without any other metric. I, for one, would enjoy reading a proper, simultaneously carried out comparison.
What's the wager on the GT3 having it? Hoping we get to find out in Geneva. With all the spyshots, one would think there would have been a camera stuck inside a wheelhouse to see. But then again, I wonder how many of the "spy" shots are not just authorized, calculated leaks, which would of course show exactly what they would want them to show, or not show.
Last edited by holminator; Apr 27, 2013 at 04:44 AM. Reason: My English be poor. argh
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 957
Likes: 3
From: USA
The extra weight issue was also brought up in 2004-2005 regarding PASM. It's funny to hear the same arguments against seven years later for PDCC. Once the turbo version comes standard with PDCC everyone will fall in-line just like last time. Zzzz
AutoX
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: DC & Saudi Arabia
The GT3 came up with no PDCC, Interested in hearing thoughts about this. Another question is there real variations between cars with PASM VS PASM + PDCC?? I consider my self to be an extreme driver, honestly when the suspension is off the car rolls!! I have to note I do not have a PDCC.
Last edited by MASHAT; Apr 23, 2013 at 09:35 PM.
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,629
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From: Maryland USA
Porsche at the intro of the GT3 was asked that. They made the point that with the car GT3 being 30mm lower than the standard non PASM car, and with stiffer springs and shocks and roll bars, roll was so minimal that PDCC did not add anything and was not justifed or needed.
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 346
From: Maryland USA
I prefer the feel of SPASM, which has very low roll and a sort of feel I like.
Mike Levitas (engineer, owner of TCP, class winner at Daytona) described PDCC to me as being like having him optimizing the roll rate and contact patch on the fly at speed- which I thought was pretty neat. Porsche asserts that it is responsible for half the performance improvement around the 'Ring for the 991C2S over the 997C2S.
That Porsche has made other choices on the 991 GT3 - which is quite low and stiff- suggests to me that PDCC is made to add a very real performance improvement to its most street-comfortable configuration. That is the way it matters.
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Instructor
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From: Scottsdale & Stuttgart
)
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2012
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I think regular PASM + PDCC is probably best compromise between comfort and performance. If you're going to order the PDCC, I think you should choose SPASM only for the aesthetics of a lowered ride height, chin spoiler, and greater angle of spoiler deployment.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,458
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From: SF Bay Area
My 2 cents after a year of SPASM with PDCC are:
The "feel" factor of the PDCC (good or bad) is probably the least noticeable in a SPASM car, where the PDCC has less to do in the first place, given the stiffer suspension / larger anti roll bar to begin with.
The ride in "eco" mode (read "normal" mode) is incredibly compliant even with SPASM. Metro roads in dire needs infrastructure dollars are of no worries.
With Sport Chassis on, the feel of the steering is more granular, and while I used to worry about the constant reviews of the electric steering, now I just shrug them off and smile behind the wheel at the precision.
Would I get PDCC again? Maybe/probably.
+ Pot hole mode changeable to very little body roll/performance mode is very cool, especially for someone who does not want to mod their car and just want it to be a factory setup jack of all trades (within reason, of course).
- Some level of purist in me is bugged by an extra system/weight of the PDCC.
Do I at all regret getting PDCC on my SPASM car. No.
The "feel" factor of the PDCC (good or bad) is probably the least noticeable in a SPASM car, where the PDCC has less to do in the first place, given the stiffer suspension / larger anti roll bar to begin with.
The ride in "eco" mode (read "normal" mode) is incredibly compliant even with SPASM. Metro roads in dire needs infrastructure dollars are of no worries.
With Sport Chassis on, the feel of the steering is more granular, and while I used to worry about the constant reviews of the electric steering, now I just shrug them off and smile behind the wheel at the precision.
Would I get PDCC again? Maybe/probably.
+ Pot hole mode changeable to very little body roll/performance mode is very cool, especially for someone who does not want to mod their car and just want it to be a factory setup jack of all trades (within reason, of course).
- Some level of purist in me is bugged by an extra system/weight of the PDCC.
Do I at all regret getting PDCC on my SPASM car. No.
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 346
From: Maryland USA
My 2 cents after a year of SPASM with PDCC are:
The "feel" factor of the PDCC (good or bad) is probably the least noticeable in a SPASM car, where the PDCC has less to do in the first place, given the stiffer suspension / larger anti roll bar to begin with.
The ride in "eco" mode (read "normal" mode) is incredibly compliant even with SPASM. Metro roads in dire needs infrastructure dollars are of no worries.
With Sport Chassis on, the feel of the steering is more granular, and while I used to worry about the constant reviews of the electric steering, now I just shrug them off and smile behind the wheel at the precision.
Would I get PDCC again? Maybe/probably.
+ Pot hole mode changeable to very little body roll/performance mode is very cool, especially for someone who does not want to mod their car and just want it to be a factory setup jack of all trades (within reason, of course).
- Some level of purist in me is bugged by an extra system/weight of the PDCC.
Do I at all regret getting PDCC on my SPASM car. No.
The "feel" factor of the PDCC (good or bad) is probably the least noticeable in a SPASM car, where the PDCC has less to do in the first place, given the stiffer suspension / larger anti roll bar to begin with.
The ride in "eco" mode (read "normal" mode) is incredibly compliant even with SPASM. Metro roads in dire needs infrastructure dollars are of no worries.
With Sport Chassis on, the feel of the steering is more granular, and while I used to worry about the constant reviews of the electric steering, now I just shrug them off and smile behind the wheel at the precision.
Would I get PDCC again? Maybe/probably.
+ Pot hole mode changeable to very little body roll/performance mode is very cool, especially for someone who does not want to mod their car and just want it to be a factory setup jack of all trades (within reason, of course).
- Some level of purist in me is bugged by an extra system/weight of the PDCC.
Do I at all regret getting PDCC on my SPASM car. No.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by fbroen:10413478
The ride in "eco" mode (read "normal" mode) is incredibly compliant even with SPASM. Metro roads in dire needs infrastructure dollars are of no worries.
. Luckily most of them have not developed to the point I think the chin spoiler will manage to stare right at them and live to tell the stories.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 35
If you're after ultimate performance and are the type that likes to have his cake and eat it, too? Yes, get PDCC. If you prefer the old school analog feel of a basic spring / shock / anti-roll bar suspension then, no, this is probably not for you.
Lateral load transfer is a bad thing. Period. PDCC's benefit is that it gives you the best of both worlds: dynamic lateral roll resistance, and thus a reduction in lateral load transfer, when you need it (during cornering), but no ride comfort penalty when you don't...the cake and eating it too part.
How one feels about the, er, feel of that is another thing. You may like the "feel" of a car rolling and loading up the outside wheels as you enter and progress through a corner, but strictly speaking it implies a concomitant unloading of the unladen, inside wheels and a reduction in car performance. This is not a good thing because in the process, even though you have increased the overall load on the outside tire and consequently its cornering force, you have reduced the overall combined cornering force of the given pair of tires (inside and outside). In plain English: you'll go faster with it.
This is basically "active suspension" technology and was taken to its extreme in early-to-mid 90s Formula 1 suspension design.
On that note, I'm surprised Porsche didn't include a PDCC option with a "track only mode" on the new GT3. Theoretically they could use GPS and a built-in track database to control a "pre-load" of roll resistance into the suspension to optimize cornering ability at various points on the track. This is what they were doing with F1 cars in the 90s, most successfully by Williams GPE.
Lateral load transfer is a bad thing. Period. PDCC's benefit is that it gives you the best of both worlds: dynamic lateral roll resistance, and thus a reduction in lateral load transfer, when you need it (during cornering), but no ride comfort penalty when you don't...the cake and eating it too part.
How one feels about the, er, feel of that is another thing. You may like the "feel" of a car rolling and loading up the outside wheels as you enter and progress through a corner, but strictly speaking it implies a concomitant unloading of the unladen, inside wheels and a reduction in car performance. This is not a good thing because in the process, even though you have increased the overall load on the outside tire and consequently its cornering force, you have reduced the overall combined cornering force of the given pair of tires (inside and outside). In plain English: you'll go faster with it.
This is basically "active suspension" technology and was taken to its extreme in early-to-mid 90s Formula 1 suspension design.
On that note, I'm surprised Porsche didn't include a PDCC option with a "track only mode" on the new GT3. Theoretically they could use GPS and a built-in track database to control a "pre-load" of roll resistance into the suspension to optimize cornering ability at various points on the track. This is what they were doing with F1 cars in the 90s, most successfully by Williams GPE.