991 GT3 info from the source!
02-02-2011, 03:55 PM
#107
This is exactly what the motorsport guy said. Either this year (later) or beginning of next year the 9A1 will be run. It is (has) been undergoing internal testing for some time.
02-02-2011, 04:01 PM
#108
Nordschleife Master
02-02-2011, 04:10 PM
#109
Nordschleife Master
The Mezger engine is an old engine, far more complex than today it needs to be, and when it fails (and it does fail) it is costly. People get all twisted in knots about it, but that's just nostalgia.
I am a hardcore 911 flat6 fan and I would never be happy with a V8 (out in the rear), and I was not happy with the transitional M96/M97 engine, but the 9A1 rocks. Does it have a soul? It is eager to rev and it is very elastic. Is that a soul?
P.S. - Here is an idea... we need to find the name of the 9A1 chief designer - no doubt a Weissach star - and then we found the 9A1's soul.
02-02-2011, 04:49 PM
#110
Racer
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Soul? Are we mystical here? The 9A1 is the first modern flat 6 engine in over 10 years and it is a great design. Of course, a racier version of that will come, with stronger materials (and its added cost) to withstand a higher redline and motorsport stresses. Note though that 9A1s are tracked routinely and they do great. There's even a 9A1 race car running somewhere on the East Coast.
The Mezger engine is an old engine, far more complex than today it needs to be, and when it fails (and it does fail) it is costly. People get all twisted in knots about it, but that's just nostalgia.
I am a hardcore 911 flat6 fan and I would never be happy with a V8 (out in the rear), and I was not happy with the transitional M96/M97 engine, but the 9A1 rocks. Does it have a soul? It is eager to rev and it is very elastic. Is that a soul?
P.S. - Here is an idea... we need to find the name of the 9A1 chief designer - no doubt a Weissach star - and then we found the 9A1's soul.
The Mezger engine is an old engine, far more complex than today it needs to be, and when it fails (and it does fail) it is costly. People get all twisted in knots about it, but that's just nostalgia.
I am a hardcore 911 flat6 fan and I would never be happy with a V8 (out in the rear), and I was not happy with the transitional M96/M97 engine, but the 9A1 rocks. Does it have a soul? It is eager to rev and it is very elastic. Is that a soul?
P.S. - Here is an idea... we need to find the name of the 9A1 chief designer - no doubt a Weissach star - and then we found the 9A1's soul.
I am looking forward to my new 991 GT3 Clubsport.
02-02-2011, 05:48 PM
#111
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Folks, don't be confused by Porsche about the 9A1 engine simplicity. PAG made it so (no true dry sump, integrated many parts, etc.) solely due to the cost saving of its side, not to the benefit of our - the customers' - side.
PAG does the cost saving yet increases the price of the car. As another forumer mentioned that a 9A1 GTS now cost almost as much as a GT3.
If we embrace this practice, Porsche will just be motivated to do more so down the road laughing to the bank.
Ask any Porsche mechanic, if a 9A1 engine has some moderate (or sometimes just minor) problem, the whole engine might need to be replaced because there might not be individual part made to be available or be designed to be repairable. A scary thought if it is out of warranty or not covered by warranty.
The Mezger engine, is highly rebuildable. Over the years, many of us have seen Porsche showcased in some autoshow that -- a single mechanic at the show booth, could disassemble the whole Mezger engine and reassemble it in front of the audience. That is valuable for any collectible or racing cars.
Make no mistake, I think the 9A1 engine is perfect for a road 911. However, until it won Le Mans over Ferrari, Corvette, etc.; the Mezger engien is still legendary at its level. And nowadays, the GT3 is something that moeny can buy (at a relative bargain, if I dare to say.)
Regards,
PAG does the cost saving yet increases the price of the car. As another forumer mentioned that a 9A1 GTS now cost almost as much as a GT3.
If we embrace this practice, Porsche will just be motivated to do more so down the road laughing to the bank.
Ask any Porsche mechanic, if a 9A1 engine has some moderate (or sometimes just minor) problem, the whole engine might need to be replaced because there might not be individual part made to be available or be designed to be repairable. A scary thought if it is out of warranty or not covered by warranty.
The Mezger engine, is highly rebuildable. Over the years, many of us have seen Porsche showcased in some autoshow that -- a single mechanic at the show booth, could disassemble the whole Mezger engine and reassemble it in front of the audience. That is valuable for any collectible or racing cars.
Make no mistake, I think the 9A1 engine is perfect for a road 911. However, until it won Le Mans over Ferrari, Corvette, etc.; the Mezger engien is still legendary at its level. And nowadays, the GT3 is something that moeny can buy (at a relative bargain, if I dare to say.)
Regards,
Last edited by axhoaxho; 02-02-2011 at 06:23 PM.
02-02-2011, 05:59 PM
#112
Nordschleife Master
The only reason 9A1s are not repaired locally is that the engine is new and PAG always wants to take a look at a failed engine in the 1st few years of production. I suspect that soon we will see 9A1s being repaired locally if something goes bad.
02-02-2011, 06:08 PM
#113
Rennlist Member
Why do you think a 9A1 engine could not be built by a single tech on a bench in front of an audience? Of course it can, and I bet it is easier to assemble than the Mezger engine. The Mezger engine assembly cost is what makes the engine expensive...The only reason 9A1s are not repaired locally is that the engine is new and PAG always wants to take a look at a failed engine in the 1st few years of production. I suspect that soon we will see 9A1s being repaired locally if something goes bad.
02-02-2011, 06:37 PM
#114
Nordschleife Master
eer ... I think the Ti components might actually be at the core of the engine cost not the assembly which is broadly equivalent in the time taken for it to be assembled on the engine line. Porsche factory engine technicians are expensive but they are not *THAT* expensive ...
I predict you will drive a 9A1 powered GT3 soon and will sing its praise.
02-02-2011, 07:04 PM
#115
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Why do you think a 9A1 engine could not be built by a single tech on a bench in front of an audience? Of course it can, and I bet it is easier to assemble than the Mezger engine. The Mezger engine assembly cost is what makes the engine expensive...
The only reason 9A1s are not repaired locally is that the engine is new and PAG always wants to take a look at a failed engine in the 1st few years of production. I suspect that soon we will see 9A1s being repaired locally if something goes bad.
The only reason 9A1s are not repaired locally is that the engine is new and PAG always wants to take a look at a failed engine in the 1st few years of production. I suspect that soon we will see 9A1s being repaired locally if something goes bad.
Regards,
02-02-2011, 07:15 PM
#116
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Folks, don't be confused by Porsche about the 9A1 engine simplicity. PAG made it so (no true dry sump, integrated many parts, etc.) solely due to the cost saving of its side, not to the benefit of our - the customers' - side.
PAG does the cost saving yet increases the price of the car. As another forumer mentioned that a 9A1 GTS now cost almost as much as a GT3.
If we embrace this practice, Porsche will just be motivated to do more so down the road laughing to the bank.
Ask any Porsche mechanic, if a 9A1 engine has some moderate (or sometimes just minor) problem, the whole engine might need to be replaced because there might not be individual part made to be available or be designed to be repairable. A scary thought if it is out of warranty or not covered by warranty.
The Mezger engine, is highly rebuildable. Over the years, many of us have seen Porsche showcased in some autoshow that -- a single mechanic at the show booth, could disassemble the whole Mezger engine and reassemble it in front of the audience. That is valuable for any collectible or racing cars.
Make no mistake, I think the 9A1 engine is perfect for a road 911. However, until it won Le Mans over Ferrari, Corvette, etc.; the Mezger engien is still legendary at its level. And nowadays, the GT3 is something that moeny can buy (at a relative bargain, if I dare to say.)
Regards,
PAG does the cost saving yet increases the price of the car. As another forumer mentioned that a 9A1 GTS now cost almost as much as a GT3.
If we embrace this practice, Porsche will just be motivated to do more so down the road laughing to the bank.
Ask any Porsche mechanic, if a 9A1 engine has some moderate (or sometimes just minor) problem, the whole engine might need to be replaced because there might not be individual part made to be available or be designed to be repairable. A scary thought if it is out of warranty or not covered by warranty.
The Mezger engine, is highly rebuildable. Over the years, many of us have seen Porsche showcased in some autoshow that -- a single mechanic at the show booth, could disassemble the whole Mezger engine and reassemble it in front of the audience. That is valuable for any collectible or racing cars.
Make no mistake, I think the 9A1 engine is perfect for a road 911. However, until it won Le Mans over Ferrari, Corvette, etc.; the Mezger engien is still legendary at its level. And nowadays, the GT3 is something that moeny can buy (at a relative bargain, if I dare to say.)
Regards,
Mezger gt1 is a legendary engine. This is the reason why I went with the mk2 gt3.
02-02-2011, 07:20 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
I wound my 9A1 to redline a few times on the way to work this morning. Yes, it revs freely and smoothly. But so does a Lexus motor.
02-02-2011, 08:09 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
Take the factory tour, the GT1 and 9A1 engine assy lines are next to each other in Zuffenhausen, the time taken to assy either engine is "approximately" the same, the difference is measured in minutes, not hours or days, Germany hourly labour rates are good, but they are not that good ...
02-02-2011, 08:45 PM
#119
Nordschleife Master
From an engineering perspective I see nothing wrong about the use of high tech adhesives in the assembly of modern engines, especially if they are mounted on street cars. Those engines should last 200k miles. If those methods do not make sense on engines destined to be rebuilt every 100 hours, I imagine that those procedures will change when a 9A1 motorsports version is released.
02-02-2011, 08:46 PM
#120
Nordschleife Master
Take the factory tour, the GT1 and 9A1 engine assy lines are next to each other in Zuffenhausen, the time taken to assy either engine is "approximately" the same, the difference is measured in minutes, not hours or days, Germany hourly labour rates are good, but they are not that good ...