991 GT3 info from the source!
02-03-2011, 09:32 AM
#136
Racer
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To be fair to the Ferrari, 10 secs over 21 km is no big difference. All the NBR times should be taken with a grain of salt in regards to the used tires (the Italia doesn´t come standard with Corsas or Cups), weather, driver, etc.
In roll-on acceleration, I am sure the Ferrari would devour the RS, if only for the simple fact that it has seamless gearshifts which just cannot be matched by our cars. And it´s handy in the corners, too, I am sure.
Nevertheless, I am sorry they don´t make it in manual, would be a very interesting alternative.
Now as for the rumoured RS 4,0, I just hope it happens and blows our minds.
The scary fact is that in terms of performance and track times, the writing on the wall is pointing at the MP4-12C at the moment, so all our cars, including the RS 4,0, will be side-tracked to that end.
That will not make our cars any less magical, just a little overwhelmed.
In roll-on acceleration, I am sure the Ferrari would devour the RS, if only for the simple fact that it has seamless gearshifts which just cannot be matched by our cars. And it´s handy in the corners, too, I am sure.
Nevertheless, I am sorry they don´t make it in manual, would be a very interesting alternative.
Now as for the rumoured RS 4,0, I just hope it happens and blows our minds.
The scary fact is that in terms of performance and track times, the writing on the wall is pointing at the MP4-12C at the moment, so all our cars, including the RS 4,0, will be side-tracked to that end.
That will not make our cars any less magical, just a little overwhelmed.
02-03-2011, 09:47 AM
#137
Rennlist Member
I think they are going to have to work hard to find another 72bhp ... Clearly it's possible given the work Porsche have done with the Mezger engine ... Although even that stretches the reliability I can imagine that such an engine may be derived from an 9A1 block but it wil probably need some of the same magic applied to the GT1 block ... All of which were developed for motorsport 1st ...
107bhp/litre vs 126/litre ... I suppose its not beyond belief right?
beers on me!
107bhp/litre vs 126/litre ... I suppose its not beyond belief right?
beers on me!
02-03-2011, 09:50 AM
#138
Rennlist Member
It wasn't intended as a swipe at the F458 Mark, just trying to make the point that the F458 is an example of cutting edge design and manufacturing processes and with bucket loads more power and yet isn't exactly light years ahead in overall performance...
The GT3 and RS do benefit from semi-slicks but the F458 more than makes up for that with the extra 120+ hp and the double clutch...
The GT3 and RS do benefit from semi-slicks but the F458 more than makes up for that with the extra 120+ hp and the double clutch...
02-03-2011, 10:02 AM
#139
Rennlist Member
From an engineering perspective I see nothing wrong about the use of high tech adhesives in the assembly of modern engines, especially if they are mounted on street cars. Those engines should last 200k miles. If those methods do not make sense on engines destined to be rebuilt every 100 hours, I imagine that those procedures will change when a 9A1 motorsports version is released.
but I think if porsche will decide to make a race version of 9a1 they will figure it out, probably. racing teams cannot send engines to germany for service.
02-03-2011, 10:04 AM
#140
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if people are man enough to put their beloved 458 on the same dyno, same day, as a 3rs, then i would hazard a guess that the numbers may show alot less difference than the claimed numbers would suggest...
02-03-2011, 10:06 AM
#141
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To be fair to the Ferrari, 10 secs over 21 km is no big difference. All the NBR times should be taken with a grain of salt in regards to the used tires (the Italia doesn´t come standard with Corsas or Cups), weather, driver, etc.
In roll-on acceleration, I am sure the Ferrari would devour the RS, if only for the simple fact that it has seamless gearshifts which just cannot be matched by our cars. And it´s handy in the corners, too, I am sure.
Nevertheless, I am sorry they don´t make it in manual, would be a very interesting alternative.
Now as for the rumoured RS 4,0, I just hope it happens and blows our minds.
The scary fact is that in terms of performance and track times, the writing on the wall is pointing at the MP4-12C at the moment, so all our cars, including the RS 4,0, will be side-tracked to that end.
That will not make our cars any less magical, just a little overwhelmed.
In roll-on acceleration, I am sure the Ferrari would devour the RS, if only for the simple fact that it has seamless gearshifts which just cannot be matched by our cars. And it´s handy in the corners, too, I am sure.
Nevertheless, I am sorry they don´t make it in manual, would be a very interesting alternative.
Now as for the rumoured RS 4,0, I just hope it happens and blows our minds.
The scary fact is that in terms of performance and track times, the writing on the wall is pointing at the MP4-12C at the moment, so all our cars, including the RS 4,0, will be side-tracked to that end.
That will not make our cars any less magical, just a little overwhelmed.
are czech girls all really as hot as they are depicted?
02-03-2011, 11:34 AM
#143
A 458 will destroy GT3 and RS from a dig, 0-60, and on any track. The cars are not comparable. I have been on track with three of the 458's as well as got a 10 lap stint in one and the car is unbelievable. The transmission and the extra horses make a BIG difference. I am sure others who track a lot can chime in and back me up here!
02-03-2011, 01:27 PM
#144
Rennlist Member
996.1 3.6L 360bhp 100bhp/l
996.2 3.6L 381bhp 106bhp/l
997.1 3.6L 415bhp 115bhp/l
997.2 3.8L 435bhp 114bhp/l
997.2 RS 3.8L 450bhp 118bhp/l
just to put it into perspective:
997 GT3 RSR 3.9L 455bhp 116bhp/l
997 GT3 R 3.9L 480bhp 123bhp/l
So what is proposed is, to take an engine that currently develops 408bhp or 107bhp/l and 'tweak' it to produce the same/more bhp/l than the current most powerful 'race' engine ...
Assuming bhp/l is a linear relationship the 9A1 would have to be a 4.4L displacement to generate 480bhp at its current bhp/l (107) abillities.
My point is that this is more than a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap
attaining an increment of 19bhp/l will be no mean feat of engine technology and will most likely require much of the same technology that the GT-1 block
enshrines (in particular Ti components to enable rpms > 6800)
YMMV...
02-03-2011, 02:09 PM
#145
Rennlist Member
I doubt it is that simple; its clearly possible, but extracting 126bhp/litre from any engine is quite a challenge. Even our beloved Mezger GT-1 block only delivers 118bhp/litre in its most potent street/production form, and it took 10 years from 1st (street) production and 4+ variants to attain that output.
996.1 3.6L 360bhp 100bhp/l
996.2 3.6L 381bhp 106bhp/l
997.1 3.6L 415bhp 115bhp/l
997.2 3.8L 435bhp 114bhp/l
997.2 RS 3.8L 450bhp 118bhp/l
just to put it into perspective:
997 GT3 RSR 3.9L 455bhp 116bhp/l
997 GT3 R 3.9L 480bhp 123bhp/l
So what is proposed is, to take an engine that currently develops 408bhp or 107bhp/l and 'tweak' it to produce the same/more bhp/l than the current most powerful 'race' engine ...
Assuming bhp/l is a linear relationship the 9A1 would have to be a 4.4L displacement to generate 480bhp at its current bhp/l (107) abillities.
My point is that this is more than a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap
attaining an increment of 19bhp/l will be no mean feat of engine technology and will most likely require much of the same technology that the GT-1 block
enshrines (in particular Ti components to enable rpms > 6800)
YMMV...
996.1 3.6L 360bhp 100bhp/l
996.2 3.6L 381bhp 106bhp/l
997.1 3.6L 415bhp 115bhp/l
997.2 3.8L 435bhp 114bhp/l
997.2 RS 3.8L 450bhp 118bhp/l
just to put it into perspective:
997 GT3 RSR 3.9L 455bhp 116bhp/l
997 GT3 R 3.9L 480bhp 123bhp/l
So what is proposed is, to take an engine that currently develops 408bhp or 107bhp/l and 'tweak' it to produce the same/more bhp/l than the current most powerful 'race' engine ...
Assuming bhp/l is a linear relationship the 9A1 would have to be a 4.4L displacement to generate 480bhp at its current bhp/l (107) abillities.
My point is that this is more than a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap
attaining an increment of 19bhp/l will be no mean feat of engine technology and will most likely require much of the same technology that the GT-1 block
enshrines (in particular Ti components to enable rpms > 6800)
YMMV...
but i think it is exactly what will happen - 4L+ displacement 9A1 engine in a sport configuration, with 115-120 hp/l. should be doable for porsche to build one. if they will do 4L Mezger then they most likely will stick to 4L. Why not?
With Mezger they were limited by GT1 block, with 9A1 there is more space, hypothetically speaking.
and adding a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap - can`t wait to see it in a flesh.
02-03-2011, 02:21 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
i know, for NA car anything above 120 hp/l is quite a rarity.
but i think it is exactly what will happen - 4L+ displacement 9A1 engine in a sport configuration, with 115-120 hp/l. should be doable for porsche to build one. if they will do 4L Mezger then they most likely will stick to 4L. Why not?
With Mezger they were limited by GT1 block, with 9A1 there is more space, hypothetically speaking.
and adding a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap - can`t wait to see it in a flesh.
but i think it is exactly what will happen - 4L+ displacement 9A1 engine in a sport configuration, with 115-120 hp/l. should be doable for porsche to build one. if they will do 4L Mezger then they most likely will stick to 4L. Why not?
With Mezger they were limited by GT1 block, with 9A1 there is more space, hypothetically speaking.
and adding a K&N filter, aftermarket exhaust, headers, and an ECU remap - can`t wait to see it in a flesh.
I agree there is no reason they cannot go to a 39xx displacement to get 123bhp/l but they will have to (I think) replace the major moving components with
Ti in order to rev it ... so I see it as more of a hybrid 9A1 and Mezger engine, using the block from the 9A1 and the pistons etc (at least the technology/methodology) from the GT-1/Mezger ...
WTF do I know anyway!
All I really want to see is a 'better' car; less stupid sh*t in the cockpit for dealers to pre-configure into over-priced luxo-boxes while real enthusiasts cant
get an allocation to build their own dream car, I'd like to see it lighter, I'd like to see PDK S for those that want it, and a manual for those that dont.
Actually since I love my '10 997.2 GT3 I doubt I will care when the 991 comes out, but we will see (I will make sure I have an appropriate hat to eat when that day comes).
02-03-2011, 02:28 PM
#147
Racer
The 997 GT3 RSR 3.8 produces 485 hp breathing through two manditory 30.3 mm restrictors. 4.0 produces 455 hp breathing through two 29.5 mm restrictors. Without restrictors, the engine makes 575 hp, that's 143.75 hp/L.
02-03-2011, 02:34 PM
#148
Nordschleife Master
02-03-2011, 02:36 PM
#149
Rennlist Member
well, it may make 575hp, but for how long? restrictors are there for a reason.
02-03-2011, 02:38 PM
#150
Rennlist Member
I guess I shall remain a 9A1 sceptic until such time as PAG unveils a 9A1 with an additional 18-20 bhp/l in a norm aspirated product (or motorsports for that matter). I am sure they may ... we'll see!
Regardless, I doubt we the customer will see any particular cost savings from such an engine being passed on in a commensurate discount of the MSRP!