991 GT3 info from the source!
02-02-2011, 02:05 AM
#91
Right, the GTS pricing is its weakness (and it's not bad value compared to a new, equally equipped or as close as you can get with say a C2S or C4S if you want wide body) but it all adds up and suddenly you're at $120K+ for a GTS with PCCB and PDK (no option for lightweight headlights or battery, only for the GT2 style seats) and zero froufrou options (not even nav or whatever would make sense in a GTS with PDK (maybe say the $8K on PCCB and get the leather and nav and backup sensors or whatever.) But $110K, that's still crazy money compared to a GT3 and $120K+ compared to a 2011 GT3 RS unless you absolutely positively have to have rear seats. In which case, just get an '09 C2S, deal with a bit less power and pay maybe $70K? The wide body and power kit are not to be sniffed at, but for $50K? Hardly compelling. And I wonder how road car daily driver folks will feel about those bloody centerlocks. : )
Order no. Vehicle Prices*
997150 911 Carrera GTS $103,100
Exterior Color B4 Carrara White $0
Interior Color 28 Black Interior with Alcantara Seats $0
Performance 250 Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) $4,320
450 Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) $8,150
640 Sport Chrono Package Plus $1,480
P17 Sports Suspension (-20 mm) Including Mechanical Rear Differential Lock $950
Wheels 422 19" RS Spyder Wheels with Center Locking $0
Interior P03 Sports Bucket Seats $2,990
Destination Charge Amount $950
Vehicle price $121,940
Order no. Vehicle Prices*
997150 911 Carrera GTS $103,100
Exterior Color B4 Carrara White $0
Interior Color 28 Black Interior with Alcantara Seats $0
Performance 250 Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) $4,320
450 Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) $8,150
640 Sport Chrono Package Plus $1,480
P17 Sports Suspension (-20 mm) Including Mechanical Rear Differential Lock $950
Wheels 422 19" RS Spyder Wheels with Center Locking $0
Interior P03 Sports Bucket Seats $2,990
Destination Charge Amount $950
Vehicle price $121,940
02-02-2011, 02:07 AM
#92
I found the buttons really confusing especially while trying to drive on an unknown track ... I was constantly making the wrong shift at the wrong time until I realized the one advantage of the button system which is that each button l/r is both an upshift and a downshift unlike some flappy paddles where one side is upshift and the other is down ... once I got that thru my thik skull my love grew for PDK luxury on track ... no more of that heel+toe stuff!
But PDK is not about the shift, it's about the power delivery, the control over the vehicle and removal of a major impediment to controlling the vehicle on the limit. There's no interruption in engine power and the engine remains mechanically connected to the wheels throughout the shift -- there's even enough clutch overlap to cause a noticeable torque acceleration on the upshift (deliberately designed into the PDK box to extract this advantage.) Driver-for-driver, engine-for-engine, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a manually shifted car (including a sequential shift) to keep up with a dual clutch car. There's no grey area, it's just plain impossible. So shifting has become, for the amateur, an amateur hobby, which is fine by me and I'll still want the challenge-reward of it, but absence of that skill test diminishes driving with PDK not one iota.
02-02-2011, 02:09 AM
#93
Rennlist Member
The 9A1 is modern, efficient, lightweight, less complex, and it promises to be powerful and robust. But it needs to be infused with some soul. That is my only concern.
And I don't mean just a flatulent exhaust.
And I don't mean just a flatulent exhaust.
02-02-2011, 02:13 AM
#94
Rennlist Member
With all the talk about the workings of the 9A1, has anyone seen a guide on what it looks like, piece by piece? Case in point, I don't even know what the "integrated dry sump" really means in real life...
02-02-2011, 02:21 AM
#95
Three Wheelin'
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And I wonder how road car daily driver folks will feel about those bloody centerlocks. : )
Daily driver folks will probably never be bothered by the centerlock, since they might never touch it except when their cars are serviced by the dealer.
Regards,
02-02-2011, 10:19 AM
#96
Race Director
+1 exactly...Center Locks are not great for the DE or club racer crowd. If I ordered a GTS I'd get it with the 5 lug wheels. From what I've seen the new center locks are a PITA to deal with...they're not real racing center locks anyway.
02-02-2011, 10:26 AM
#97
I test drove a few 9A1 C2Ss (PDK and six speed) before my .2 3 purchase and thought the engine was marvelous. It revs very eagerly and has a nice linear power curve. Less moving parts than its predecessor as you mentioned; and no IMS. I think Porsche shaved close to 13 lbs as well. It is no GT1 but very impressive.
02-02-2011, 10:29 AM
#98
The case is no longer split, less 13 lbs as stated above with DI.
The oil sump is integrated within the case rather than an independent external reservoir.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc
Last edited by 911dev; 02-02-2011 at 02:06 PM.
02-02-2011, 02:37 PM
#100
The Rebel
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I suspect the race version of the 9A1 will have an external oil reservoir (making it a "true dry sump") and as such so will the GT3/RS/GT2.
02-02-2011, 02:42 PM
#101
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02-02-2011, 02:52 PM
#102
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02-02-2011, 02:54 PM
#103
Rennlist Member
The "Sport Plus" mode downshifts are just as enjoyable as a good rev-matched blip downshift. There was a certain sense of "achievement" when I became smooth on double-de-clutch downshifts (necessitated by brass or no syncro at all) and not to be confused with the mickey mouse single declutch downshift (which uses the syncros to match the gear rpms then the blip "matches" the engine to the gearbox ... this gives the driver less confidence on the downshift, but keeps the car mostly stable.) Shifting is a lot more rewarding all round with the mechanical linkage shifter assembly -- Bowdan cables are Toyota Camry technology and have no place in a Porsche.
But PDK is not about the shift, it's about the power delivery, the control over the vehicle and removal of a major impediment to controlling the vehicle on the limit. There's no interruption in engine power and the engine remains mechanically connected to the wheels throughout the shift -- there's even enough clutch overlap to cause a noticeable torque acceleration on the upshift (deliberately designed into the PDK box to extract this advantage.) Driver-for-driver, engine-for-engine, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a manually shifted car (including a sequential shift) to keep up with a dual clutch car. There's no grey area, it's just plain impossible. So shifting has become, for the amateur, an amateur hobby, which is fine by me and I'll still want the challenge-reward of it, but absence of that skill test diminishes driving with PDK not one iota.
But PDK is not about the shift, it's about the power delivery, the control over the vehicle and removal of a major impediment to controlling the vehicle on the limit. There's no interruption in engine power and the engine remains mechanically connected to the wheels throughout the shift -- there's even enough clutch overlap to cause a noticeable torque acceleration on the upshift (deliberately designed into the PDK box to extract this advantage.) Driver-for-driver, engine-for-engine, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a manually shifted car (including a sequential shift) to keep up with a dual clutch car. There's no grey area, it's just plain impossible. So shifting has become, for the amateur, an amateur hobby, which is fine by me and I'll still want the challenge-reward of it, but absence of that skill test diminishes driving with PDK not one iota.
02-02-2011, 03:16 PM
#104
The 9A1 .2 turbo and S do not have external reservoirs, although, are not raced as the gt3 engine would be either.
02-02-2011, 03:44 PM
#105
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GT3 with PDK S. That's awesome. 
GT1 block is proven, but that's heavy and old.
9A1 is the future IMO, less parts = less weight and less problems.
When people waiting for the new R35 GTR, they said the old engine is the best and worried about the new one. People need to look forward.
GT1 block is proven, but that's heavy and old.
9A1 is the future IMO, less parts = less weight and less problems.
When people waiting for the new R35 GTR, they said the old engine is the best and worried about the new one. People need to look forward.