HardRider

I loathe warranty companies but this failure 100% is the result of an incompetent dealer. Absolutely pathetic, that is who you should be posting on. Pimps bleed everyone with their parts cannon. Thank God for the warranty company saying no. It's like all these pimp attorneys and false injury claims and the gutless insurance companies won't go to court they just pay out. Guess what YOU pay the insurance premiums for this racket....

PV997

Would be good to hear from a dealer tech if there are any out there. From the Porsche diagnostic algorithms I've seen, and from what I've been told, Porsche does not trust the mechanics to use their own critical thinking and diagnostic skills. They must follow the flow diagrams and aren't allowed to deviate even if they disagree with the conclusion. The diagrams are overly simplistic in their methodology, and don't do much more than escalate part swapping until they happen to hit on the cause.

Paying $200-$300/hour for a guy following a flow diagram is ridiculous though. That's a highly-skilled burdened labor rate, and you'd expect some actual brainpower for that kind of money, at least I would. Not saying the techs aren't smart, but that Porsche won't let them think for themselves.

I'm no fan of aftermarket warranties and have never bought one for anything since I got conned on my first car purchase decades ago (lesson learned). But lots of stuff on this post is strange, the OP's overly emotional post, the fact his car is a Panamera yet he posted in the 991 forum, this is the third attempt at the repair which he neglected to mention, and replacing the oil pump is going to cost $10k(!!).

I don't know anything about Panamera's but $10k sounds obscenely high, particularly after two failed repairs. Sunset Porsche Parts has a genuine Porsche oil pump for $1543 and it looks like it can be pretty easily accessed by dropping the pan, at least from looking at the parts diagram. No surprise as that's how it is with the 911.

https://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/o...mp-94810701373

Seems to me the problem isn't with the warranty company but with Reno Porsche. I don't like to kick people when they are down but the OP would have been in a better position if he was fully informed. Knowledge is power as they say. Now he's probably stuck unless he can work a deal with the warranty company to split the costs or take it somewhere cheaper.

Porsche911GTS'16

I have a Freedom warranty for my 2016 991.1 GTS because it has had a spectrum of issues over the years. In no particular order (all covered under the original factory warranty): PCM broke (and replaced); I had the gas tank liner issue, in which there was a squeak when the gas tank was more than half full (liner replaced); cabriolet top stitching failed (top replaced); windshield washer sprayer broke (replaced). Given the car's less than stellar track record with various issues, odds were that I would have one or more issues going forward. I was right.

The rear driver's side cabriolet window would oscillate and not close when the top was put up. Totally annoying. This was covered by the Freedom warranty. The one "drawback" that I was unaware of was that the warranty only covers hourly service up to $250/hour. Porsche South Bay charges $310/hour. I told Porsche South Bay that they either need to accept the $250/hour or I will take my business elsewhere (I am a long-term client and I also service my GT3 Touring there). They obliged. I have found Trenton very helpful; so much so that I may get a wheel/rim/paintless dent repair warranty for my GTS. I know a lot of people think that warranty is a waste of money as well but, in my experience, here in LA, the nails in the tires in my $550 a pop (pun intended) PS 4S (in both of my 911s) and the occasional rim fix for curb scrapes has more than covered the cost of the insurance.

PV997

It's not that we think they are a waste of money but that they aren't a good value. Owners would be better served not buying one and minimizing repair costs when problems do crop up.

Porsche South Bay (previously Pacific Porsche) is my local dealer and in twenty years of 911 ownership I have never gone there for anything, their prices are insultingly high. $310/hour for a mechanic is absurd, think of the overhead there. Extrapolating that out to a salary is $650k/year. The average tech is probably making $100k/year at best, so the rest is either going to completely out-of-control overhead costs or just plain old profit. That level of labor rate burdening would embarrass a defense contractor. Then on top of that is the huge parts mark-up the dealer gets charging retail prices. Porsche dealer service departments are either the worst-run businesses in the US, or they are making a killing. Probably some of both.

As I mentioned above, an aftermarket warranty is insurance against getting screwed over by the dealer. I typically don't insure against things I can prevent with twenty minutes of googling and wisely spending my money.

Edit: Noting to that South Bay Porsche used to be Pacific Porsche in Torrance. It was in a modest building in a pleasant, quiet area off the beaten path on PCH. Now it's a giant glass Taj Mahal, right next to the 405 freeway, on prime South Bay real estate, with its sign clearly visible on one of the most heavily trafficked freeways in the country. You'd have a hard time finding a more expensive commercial location in SoCal. That's what that $310/hour is paying for, not excellent mechanics.

Porsche911GTS'16

I do not disagree with what you are saying, above. All of that being said, your suggestion that I/we should "minim(ize) repair costs" is, pretty self evident - why spend more money than one has to? - but, at the same time, glossing over the fact that fixing issues with a 911 can be very expensive. Such as a cabriolet top. That alone was about $6,000, just for the top, not including installation. The PCM was thousands of dollars. Same with that maddening gas tank liner. If these had happened out of my original warranty, I would have been on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars, before labor, whether it is done at South Bay or some indy shop. Oh yeah, my AC chiller also broke (out of warranty - before I got the extended warranty). That cost me $5,000. For me, that was the impetus to get an extended warranty. I was like, okay, the writing is on the wall, this car, as much as I love it, has had its gremlins. I knew there would be more problems (there have been) and odds are, there will be more. Even if the warranty does not ultimately "pay for itself," the peace of mind of having it is worth it to me.

MingusDew

When my warranty was running out in 2022 I explored the cost of an aftermarket warranty. At the time, I was quoted close to $9k for an aftermarket warranty through one of the Rennlist vendors. I’ve driven 10k miles in the 2 years since then and had no problems (knock on wood). The $9k I put into a mutual fund, and it has had 34% in growth, worth $12k now. Lost opportunity cost is one of many reasons why I won’t buy an aftermarket warranty.

Foosh

Obviously and looking purely statistically, the average purchaser is going to pay more for an "extended warranty" than they will recover in repair costs. If that weren't true, there would be no such coverage to purchase because no company would want to be in that business. It's like any other insurance. Odds are greatly in your favor that your home is not going to burn to the ground or be destroyed by a tornado.

In my Porsche case, I had an $11K powertrain repair covered on my 991.1 Turbo S about 8 months after I purchased it. I won the lottery in that case, with a 2X+ payout over plan cost already and 4+ years of coverage left to go.

Highline-Autos.com

Thank you for chiming in and sharing your positive experience, $275 an hour is the labor rate on your policy as well.

Trenton O. Gibson
tgibson@highline-autos.com
Highline Autos
Direct: 602.909.9216
Office: 480.348.0777

rbernard1984

If anyone was curious about how this is going the answer is not well. Freedom has now refused to pay the two initial claims, which they had already approved, claiming “misdiagnoses” on the part of the dealership, instead is just offering to cover the oil pump. It makes no difference to them that the diagnosis process followed was provided to Porsche Reno by Porsche NA (which is part of the reason why the car has been there so long). Ultimately, the warranty company used every excuse they could find in the contract to deny the claim and not pay. First maintenance, then no oil change in 30 days, then not enough detail from the dealer, then misdiagnosis. The fact of the matter is that they just didn’t want to pay and took awhile to find an excuse they could make stick.

Also, they are an absolute pain to deal with, no one is able to get ahold of anyone at Freedom, except Trent. Which is odd for just being a sales person, seems to be more to that relationship than is being let on.

In the end, I would never purchase a product from Freedom. They will screw you over. I also would never purchase a product from Trent and Highline, his group is not the type of vendor we need in the pcar community.

There are better warranty groups out there, why risk your money with Freedom.

WP0

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience.
Keep in mind that this could be the new norm for "insurance" companies: you think you're covered, and pay the premium, but if you file a claim, you quickly find out the reality that possibly the policy was just a figment of your imagination, and you never really were covered. . .unless you pursue legal recourse, which is going to cost you significant sums of money.

edit: after reading reply from salesman, this incident does expose the inadequate ability to get a proper repair at some dealerships, which could just be due to the complex nature of the vehicle. (I had a problem that took the dealer 2 years to properly fix; fortunately it was a CPO vehicle, but they would replace one part, and the problem would persist, and then another. . .eventually they got it fixed, but it was a pain.)

Highline-Autos.com

Customer has received a 254.42% return on his initial investment of the warranty.

Timeline of Events.
04/01 - Repair Order #1 (Oil Pressure Sender) Submitted by Service Advisor #1 - ($926) Approved
04/11 - Repair Order #2 (Oil Pressure Regulator) Submitted by Service Advisor #1 - ($1,155) Approved
04/12 - 06/02 Service Advisor is no longer with the dealership and Service Advisor #2 has taken over
06/02 - Repair Order #3 (Oil Pump) Submitted by Service Advisor #2 - Freedom Warranty has some questions. ($10,463)

My involvement in helping this customer from when the claim was dead at $2,082, to receiving $6,884.74 in repairs.

“Section 7: Claims Procedure
3. We will not cover misdiagnosis or repairs done for process of elimination purposes to reach correct diagnosis.”

Trenton O. Gibson
tgibson@highline-autos.com
Highline Autos
Direct: 602.909.9216
Office: 480.348.0777

rbernard1984

That is likely the case, especially with companies like Freedom. Hopefully people see this thread and spend their money with better companies.

ieatfishburritos

For my understanding, how is a warranty purchaser able to influence:
- “We will not cover misdiagnosis or repairs done for process of elimination purposes to reach correct diagnosis.”

If the warranty company approves a repair, and it doesn't fix the problem, it seems unreasonable to hold the warranty purchaser responsible. I mean even the expert insurance adjuster "approved it" at the time, no? What am I missing here?

rbernard1984

The cost of the warranty was $4800, Freedom has agreed to cover $6800. That is not 255%.

Highline-Autos.com

$4,800 has not been paid to Freedom Warranty.

Trenton O. Gibson
tgibson@highline-autos.com
Highline Autos
Direct: 602.909.9216
Office: 480.348.0777