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Interesting stuff in here on both the 9XX and iSudar versions. But the above posts revealed something I hadn't realized about any of these CarPlay solutions: do they all convert the audio signal from the phone (which it's sending via WiFi to the adapter) to an analog signal through the PCM's 3.5mm AUX input?
If so, how could that ever be better than BT audio via the BT Aux input on our PCMs? Unless they come with exceptional DACs, reducing anything to a stereo analog input has to degrade sound quality, no?
Interesting stuff in here on both the 9XX and iSudar versions. But the above posts revealed something I hadn't realized about any of these CarPlay solutions: do they all convert the audio signal from the phone (which it's sending via WiFi to the adapter) to an analog signal through the PCM's 3.5mm AUX input?
If so, how could that ever be better than BT audio via the BT Aux input on our PCMs? Unless they come with exceptional DACs, reducing anything to a stereo analog input has to degrade sound quality, no?
Based on my looking at many CarPlay options (iSudar, JoyeAuto, NMAutomotive, 9xx Research and others), it appears all the solutions output analog audio from the CP board which is fed into the PCM via AUX - hence, the need to select AUX when switching to CP mode. However, by rewiring the interconnecting Quadlock connector and adding an external ADC to convert analog to USB digital, and plugging that into the USB port of the car rather than Aux, it’s possible to route the CP analog output to the USB (“iPod”) input and reports are this vastly improves the sound. I have not yet done this myself as my iSudar board hasn’t arrived, but I plan to. If there were a digital output from the CP board, the external ADC would not be necessary, but I haven’t studied that question yet and intend to.
Based on my looking at many CarPlay options (iSudar, JoyeAuto, NMAutomotive, 9xx Research and others), it appears all the solutions output analog audio from the CP board which is fed into the PCM via AUX - hence, the need to select AUX when switching to CP mode. However, by rewiring the interconnecting Quadlock connector and adding an external ADC to convert analog to USB digital, and plugging that into the USB port of the car rather than Aux, it’s possible to route the CP analog output to the USB (“iPod”) input and reports are this vastly improves the sound. I have not yet done this myself as my iSudar board hasn’t arrived, but I plan to. If there were a digital output from the CP board, the external ADC would not be necessary, but I haven’t studied that question yet and intend to.
Interesting solution. What products are out there to fulfill that ADC step?
Interesting solution. What products are out there to fulfill that ADC step?
Good question! There is one on Cartizan that seems to work. I ordered an ADC from Amazon that’s coming in a couple days and it may or may not work. I’ll post my experience with it. Despite literally hours of searching I haven’t found anything else yet. It’s an odd-duck sort of product. Probably very little demand outside of this and related threads. :-)
Interesting stuff in here on both the 9XX and iSudar versions. But the above posts revealed something I hadn't realized about any of these CarPlay solutions: do they all convert the audio signal from the phone (which it's sending via WiFi to the adapter) to an analog signal through the PCM's 3.5mm AUX input?
If so, how could that ever be better than BT audio via the BT Aux input on our PCMs? Unless they come with exceptional DACs, reducing anything to a stereo analog input has to degrade sound quality, no?
To be clear, it's not plugged into the physical 3.5mm input, so I'm not sure what the exact signal path is, but it's all getting converted to analog at some point - are the PCMs know for having exceptional DACs? I had a chance to listen more today and it sounded totally fine to me, the audio didn't seem degraded - I still think the BT connection sounds worse. I'm glad I installed the iSudar so far, and with the wireless connectivity, it's nicer to use than the native one in my wife's SUV. (Presumably the Bose / Burmeister setups would make any audio difference more apparent, it's not to me on my base unit.)
To be clear, it's not plugged into the physical 3.5mm input, so I'm not sure what the exact signal path is, but it's all getting converted to analog at some point - are the PCMs know for having exceptional DACs? I had a chance to listen more today and it sounded totally fine to me, the audio didn't seem degraded - I still think the BT connection sounds worse. I'm glad I installed the iSudar so far, and with the wireless connectivity, it's nicer to use than the native one in my wife's SUV. (Presumably the Bose / Burmeister setups would make any audio difference more apparent, it's not to me on my base unit.)
Oh, interesting, since I might have seen a 3.5mm connector in one of the parts pics from one of the CarPlay solutions, and since you have to select/use the AUX input on the PCM, I'd assumed the adapter was feeding audio through the physical AUX port.
Yes, the DAC has to happen somewhere before amplification, presumably in the PCM. From what I remember from my obsession with car audio (decades ago, in high school/college) eliminating any non-digital signal from source to amplifier was the bare minimum needed for quality sound. I haven't followed up that obsession with any research on audio-over-wifi or Bluetooth protocols, so I'm still curious what the ideal path is for wireless audio transmission.
The truth is, the best path would be wired. 😬
Maybe I'll just start carrying CDs in the car. I still have like 800+ on a dusty rack in my office. The finest 90's hip hop and grunge imaginable!
There's a 3.5mm jack on the wiring for this one, but I think it said it was for the external mic (? - don't really want to pull it apart to see what the label said again), but having the mic connected made Aux not work... Having nothing plugged into it works perfectly for me. I'd look at the comprehensive user manual, but... lol.
Agreed, I know I want the best DAC as late in the chain as possible on my home audio system, I'm just not sure whether the PCM DAC is substantially better than whatever the iSudar is doing - or how that signal is getting to the PCM, for that matter. Whatever amp the base audio is set up with + the awful drivers aren't making any quality issues apparent in any case (er... lucky me?), hopefully it's all good for you as well if you have the Bose or Burmeister.
I just finally went to full streaming now that you can get uncompressed (+ sometimes high resolution) on most services for home, am leaving it compressed for the phone side for now. But yeah, maybe a case and discs in the car would have been a plan. For $300, I think you'll be happy with this solution.
There's a 3.5mm jack on the wiring for this one, but I think it said it was for the external mic (? - don't really want to pull it apart to see what the label said again), but having the mic connected made Aux not work... Having nothing plugged into it works perfectly for me. I'd look at the comprehensive user manual, but... lol.
Agreed, I know I want the best DAC as late in the chain as possible on my home audio system, I'm just not sure whether the PCM DAC is substantially better than whatever the iSudar is doing - or how that signal is getting to the PCM, for that matter. Whatever amp the base audio is set up with + the awful drivers aren't making any quality issues apparent in any case (er... lucky me?), hopefully it's all good for you as well if you have the Bose or Burmeister.
I just finally went to full streaming now that you can get uncompressed (+ sometimes high resolution) on most services for home, am leaving it compressed for the phone side for now. But yeah, maybe a case and discs in the car would have been a plan. For $300, I think you'll be happy with this solution.
Correct, the 3.5mm jack was for the microphone. I've not checked if using this disabled my OEM jack point, as I never use it, but I can check.
Personally, I plug my music in using a flash drive and have not noticed any quality issues going that route.
Just completed my install and played with it for a day. Thank’s to Wellardmac for bringing up the iSudar unit and paving the way with his very helpful writeups. I think others in this thread have already covered all you would need to know to install the unit, but figured I would share my experience following this thread in case someone out there finds it useful.
Summary
I ordered from iSudar on AliExpress and received it about 2 weeks later. Given the ease of installation, and the cost, I am happy with the unit so far. However, I’ve only used it for about a day, so there’s a possibility that may change if any issues crop up. There were a couple of hiccups post-installation that seemed to have resolved themselves, but as long as they don’t reappear I think I will remain a happy camper.
Install notes
The videos that Wellardmac posted in this thread (post #8) helped supplement the iSudar instructions. Neither the video nor iSudar instructions are perfect, but together they give you enough information to complete the install. Additionally, the installation notes that have been posted in this thread were undoubtedly helpful in knowing what to expect and closing the instructions' gaps.
My kit came with 2 sets of standoffs (6 16mm standoffs in total), but I found this wasn't tall enough to clear the XM board without backing them out pretty far. I ran out to Micro Center and picked up a standoff kit and ended up using all of the 16mm standoffs included in the iSudar kit plus an additional 5mm standoff with a 3mm acrylic washer (40mm total height).
As others have pointed out here, the XM board antenna takes up the blank slot shown in the iSudar instructions where wires are routed out. However, the wires can still be routed through here alongside the antenna. It's a tight fit but seems to be okay, and I'm not worried about the cables getting jostled around after the install.
Overall, the installation was easier than expected. I have some past experience installing aftermarket car stereos and PC parts, which helps. Working slowly, I was able to do the install in about 3 hours.
Issues
CarPlay and PCM were working when I tested it fully connected, but before mounting the PCM in its slot. After fully mounting it back in place, I went for my first drive; the PCM screen was black with no audio. I could hear a couple of light *pop pop pop* sounds when fiddling with some of the controls, almost like a disconnected audio cable. I tried pressing some different buttons on the PCM to see if I could get any signs of life, but nothing happened. Parked in the garage and decided to come back later to troubleshoot, thinking that maybe I had accidentally disconnected a cable when pushing the PCM into place and mounting it again. After an hour, when I returned to the car, everything turned on and appeared to be working again. Not sure what the cause of the issue was, but I will watch to see if it reappears.
The next drive I took, the CarPlay screen seemed to be frozen on Spotify when I turned the car on. I suspect that the unit did not fully shut down from when I was playing with the settings to when I came back to start my drive and maybe the unit partially disconnected from my phone caused some weirdness. Holding down the menu icon on the touchscreen in CarPlay seemed to activate Siri, so it appeared that the video was not working, but it was detecting some input from the touch screen. I parked, powered the PCM all the way down, turned it back on, and that seemed to resolve the issue. Another issue I will look out for in the future.
Use notes
Using CarPlay, everything seems to work smoothly and is responsive. The unit appears to boot up quickly, and it connects to the phone and is ready to go within a few seconds of turning the power on.
When in CarPlay, if I shift the car into reverse, it exits to the PCM screen. Not sure if this is the expected behavior, a setting that can be changed, or a bug. It's a minor annoyance to get the map setup only to have it dump you back to the PCM when you shift and have to hold the Info button down to get back to CarPlay. I have a PDK (if that matters). I plan to play around with it some more.
It seems that the audio volume is controlled by both the PCM and the CarPlay unit and the PCM volume has to be turned up pretty high to make full use of the CarPlay volume adjustment. This means that when you switch between the CarPlay audio and PCM audio it ends up being much louder through the PCM (assuming you don't just leave the CarPlay audio maxed). It's nice that CarPlay includes a volume level indicator, which I miss not having in the PCM and was happy to see it in CarPlay. I can probably find a volume level that works well all around, but I might end up just using the PCM as volume the "master" volume control.
Sound quality seems the same as PCM to me with the Bose system. From what I can tell, there appears to be no noticeable loss in audio quality. I'm not an audiophile, I do enjoy a good theater system or headphones, but I'm not overly critical and I'm not sure I see the point in chasing reference sound quality in a sports car. There are more EQ settings for the CarPlay unit compared to the stock PCM, so I plan to play with that to see if I can even find subjective improvements over stock PCM.
Using CarPlay, everything seems to work smoothly and is responsive. The unit appears to boot up quickly, and it connects to the phone and is ready to go within a few seconds of turning the power on.
When in CarPlay, if I shift the car into reverse, it exits to the PCM screen. Not sure if this is the expected behavior, a setting that can be changed, or a bug. It's a minor annoyance to get the map setup only to have it dump you back to the PCM when you shift and have to hold the Info button down to get back to CarPlay. I have a PDK (if that matters). I plan to play around with it some more.
It seems that the audio volume is controlled by both the PCM and the CarPlay unit and the PCM volume has to be turned up pretty high to make full use of the CarPlay volume adjustment. This means that when you switch between the CarPlay audio and PCM audio it ends up being much louder through the PCM (assuming you don't just leave the CarPlay audio maxed). It's nice that CarPlay includes a volume level indicator, which I miss not having in the PCM and was happy to see it in CarPlay. I can probably find a volume level that works well all around, but I might end up just using the PCM as volume the "master" volume control.
Sound quality seems the same as PCM to me with the Bose system. From what I can tell, there appears to be no noticeable loss in audio quality. I'm not an audiophile, I do enjoy a good theater system or headphones, but I'm not overly critical and I'm not sure I see the point in chasing reference sound quality in a sports car. There are more EQ settings for the CarPlay unit compared to the stock PCM, so I plan to play with that to see if I can even find subjective improvements over stock PCM.
Thanks for your post of your installation notes and early use experience. My iSudar board isn't here yet, and it's good to know installation wasn't all that difficult.
About volume levels - I believe you can adjust the PCM's relative AUX volume in a PCM menu screen. Did you try to adjust that to equalize the CarPlay audio and the PCM's audio?
Thanks for your post of your installation notes and early use experience. My iSudar board isn't here yet, and it's good to know installation wasn't all that difficult.
About volume levels - I believe you can adjust the PCM's relative AUX volume in a PCM menu screen. Did you try to adjust that to equalize the CarPlay audio and the PCM's audio?
You can also adjust volume within the iSudar settings menus, so I figure with some playing around you can balance them.
Personally, I've not seen a big volume difference between the two, so maybe I got lucky. One thing discovered with use was the the volume button on the PCM does not control my PCM music when CarPlay is active, but the volume button on the steering wheel does (thankfully the main way that I usually adjust volume), so I've not really had any serious consequences of playing audio through two difference sources.
You can also adjust volume within the iSudar settings menus, so I figure with some playing around you can balance them.
Personally, I've not seen a big volume difference between the two, so maybe I got lucky. One thing discovered with use was the the volume button on the PCM does not control my PCM music when CarPlay is active, but the volume button on the steering wheel does (thankfully the main way that I usually adjust volume), so I've not really had any serious consequences of playing audio through two difference sources.
Are you using the CarPlay board stock, selecting Aux to use it? Or are you doing something different? I ask, because I don’t have a multifunction wheel and it would a real shame if my PCM’svolume control no longer worked when I receive and install my board! 😬
08-15-2021, 12:06 PM
For $300, I think you'll be happy with this solution.
