noahabel

Sounds like it was a pretty cut-and-dry, no drama affair as far as the claim was concerned. That's great to hear.

What I can't wrap my head around is that Porsche, presumably the entity which would know best because they designed, built and initially warranty these transmissions, is saying that no one, not even their specially-trained dealership mechanics, could or should take apart a PDK to repair or replace the common broken sensor. In other words, the transmission, and it's internal parts, cannot function unless this part works, and this part cannot be purchased and replaced by anyone (there's presumably no part number, right).

Ergo the sensor is part and parcel of the transmission. Broken sensor=broken transmission. That may sound obvious, but there's very few car systems that work this way. A broken ABS sensor does not mean an entire brake system must be replaced. A broken throttle position sensor doesn't brick the engine.

Any warranty that is meant to turn a broken transmission into a functional one must therefore be obligated to repair these PDK faults the only way the manufacturer allows: full replacement.

Of course this logic doesn't mean they won't try to weasel out of paying, but between this account, and Bxtr (I think) stating that his nearly identical Audi S-tronic transmission was replaced under a Fidelity powertrain plan, I'm hopeful.

Also, since I'm in California, all Vehicle Service Contracts are actually deemed "Mechanical Breakdown Insurance" policies and disputes are handled by state insurance agencies. There are more consumer-friendly resolution pathways than just complaining to a BBB.

I know everyone will say to just get the Platinum plan and not worry about it, but we're talking a difference of $2700 vs $7000 for my 44k mile 991.1 C4S. That's just bonkers.

I was also looking at the Silver plan from Member's Choice, as I'm a credit union member. It's very thorough for the lowest option plan they offer, but it's still $1500 more than the Fidelity powertrain plan. Here's their coverage sheet:

t-design

It is a well known problem. Nobody knows why Porsche has made it look like a huge deal. There are a lot of guesses. But of course it's ridiculous to change transmission for one broken sensor, and of course PDK is totally workable and fixable. And Porsche community got together and learned how to fix it:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...nsmission.html

And our company redesigned and manufacturing now a new sensor now that is not available from Porsche. So the PDK can be fixed for the fraction of the cost of new transmission:
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_dis...on_sensor.html

The trick is to find an indy shop that has expertise. Honestly any transmission shop can do it, after reading the thread above. But most a scared by the PDK-can-not-be-opened-myth. Less rich countries are more enthusiastic about fixing PDK instead of shelling $20k for new - I know in India and Ghana, they can fix PDK with screwdriver and couple of bandaids, on the side of the road

Here's the map of indys we compiling for car owners to be able to easily find a competent shop for PDK repairs:
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_sen...shops_map.html

noahabel

Yes, I have read the PDK repair thread and been encouraged that it'll become progressively easier to cure this insane problem once and for all. Your replacement sensor looks like the real deal.

Now we just need an LA-area shop that can do the install and I'd consider self-insuring instead. 🤞🏼

t-design

Here we go - talk to Jack from https://www.westsidetransmission.com/

They are not on our map because they didn't do any installs of our sensor yet, but we talked and they look and feel confident. Again, it's not particularly difficult job for a shop that did any transmissions before.

-Vlad

jfischet

anything this unexplainable, like the inability to open and repair a relatively simple mechanical device, must be limited not by technology but by law.

there is probably a licensing agreement between porsche and ZF. i am surprised the independent market hasn't made more inroads into PDK repair, honestly though.

good for you guys, t-design, for your progress!

moswissa

after reading this, Im considering skipping out on getting a warranty for my car as the PDK appears to be repairable without having to shell out an entire new transmission. I think ill take my chances and keep the money aside.

noahabel

While I agree there is the almost certain element of tracking down the right part to fix. While MANY of the reported PDK failures have come down to the position sensor, if you read the repair thread there could be a number of other causes and they're not always easy to find.

I could see a situation where you throw several thousand dollars in parts and labor at the problem before either fixing it or needing to crack open the case and swap out the sensor after all. It seems like most of the error codes leave some ambiguity to the cause.

Plus, a powertrain warranty would cover any other catastrophic mechanical failure of the drivetrain (not that this is typical in the 991, I don't think).

At least this is where my head is at right now.

PV997

I'd say it all depends on your personal risk tolerance and your ability to fix/diagnose things. I started the PDK repair thread over in the 997 forum because I was tired of all the handwringing and people constantly claiming that pretty much any PDK failure required a $20k transmission replacement. It was obviously BS being propagated by the dealers because Porsche won't allow them to fix the PDK. As T-design mentioned above, this then spread to the indys as they became afraid to open this magic box (that isn't all that magical in reality).

If you are the type that takes your car for dealership oil changes for "peace of mind" then you should probably consider an aftermarket warranty.

On the other hand, if you do your own maintenance, aren't afraid to do research, and willing to get your hands dirty then an aftermarket warranty just for the PDK doesn't make much financial sense. First off, these failures are pretty rare. Second, with T-design's distance sensor we now have replacements available for all the areas most likely to fail (solenoids, pressure sensor, temp sensor, distance sensor). We also have a documented process to open and reseal the PDK despite Porsche's refusal to tell us how to do it. With PIWIS clones and Autels available we now have the ability to calibrate and initialize a PDK after repair.

By my informal count we have over two dozen PDKs (997.2,991.1,987.2, and 981.1s) that have been repaired after a dealer told the owner the only option was to replace the PDK. However, this knowledge isn't common among indys and the dealerships still will not touch it. We've had success only because people got fed up with Porsche's BS. I documented the info that was available, then we crowd-sourced the missing links, and took risks with our own cars to figure things out. While PDKs are now being repaired it is certainly not yet common occurrence (and that's partly because they don't break very often).

Bottom line is that while the PDK is definitely repairable, it's not as simple as dropping it off at the neighborhood transmission shop. You will have to find a willing indy and convince him to give it a try or do it yourself. Aside from a few shops that T-design mentioned, you'll probably have to figure out for yourself what has actually failed in the PDK. The PDK repair thread gives you the info to do it but it requires that folks take ownership of the problem and do the legwork to make it happen.

I would never in a million years pay for an aftermarket warranty for the PDK but that's just me. But then I'd never in a million years take my car to a dealership for an oil change either.

Jack F

Good to see the progress you guys are making. Thanks.

noahabel

All well said, and thank you for your repair thread; it's been a real eye-opener and refreshing to see the progress made over time in knowledge and experience.

I'm somewhere in between the "dealership oil change" guy (never/waste of money) and the "pull his own tranny and take it apart" guy. I maintained my E36 M3 for 10 years with minimal mechanic help, mostly out of frugality but also because I enjoyed the challenge. And I've done plenty on my E38, but less so as I've gotten older and my time more precious. The biggest impediment now is proper space (my garage isn't the best) and tools. I did just pick up a QuickJack. Can the transmission come out with that level of ground clearance (~20 inches)?

My $70k+ 991 doesn't seem like the right car to dip my toe in the tranny removal waters, but the unique case of this once-insurmountable "broken" PDK may force my hand. I would simply explode if I had to consider a 5-figure repair bill and would absolutely try to fix it myself as an alternative. The question is do I want to gamble that a ~$2700 powertrain warranty would actually help or be wasted in the unlikely event I face this nightmare scenario.

Fortunately/unfortunately I'm not driving the car for a while due to an Achilles tendon rupture, so I have time to decide. It's great to hear there's a nearby shop willing to work on the PDK. I wish I knew what they would charge for the sensor R&R. Guess I could call!

Thanks again!

Fullyield

I think the cost quoted in this thread or maybe another was $6500 which is about 1/3rd of a PDK replacement.

noahabel

Yowza. But, all things considered, a much easier pill to swallow then $15k+.

Coming from the world of the BMWs I'm used to, there just isn't a single component that could fail and result in a 5-figure bill. The IMS issue on early 997s is what kept me from getting into a 911 sooner (another 5-figure bill waiting to happen, though with an established, affordable preventive measure). I jumped into the 991 search after reading how reliable they are, but I should have dug deeper into the PDK predicament.

I'll call Westside Transmissions this week to get a read on the sensor R&R and report back.

Fullyield

Most of that charge is labor to R & R the transmission. Keep in mind that the statistical probability of a distance sensor failure in your 991 is very low as PV 997 discusses………much lower than an IMS failure in a 996/997. Many, many are tracking and autoXing their cars every weekend with no issue. Westside is who I would contact in your area. Please let us know what they say. Thanks.

noahabel

So I spoke with Jack at Westside Transmission here in LA and he was very generous with his time. They feel totally comfortable pulling and rebuilding these transmissions, including using the T-design sensor replacement. That being said, a "rebuild" (likely to include the sensor replacement) is going to run north of $10k. There could be other, cheaper faults to repair (TCU, solenoids, other sensors) but the big ticket item would not be significantly cheaper than a full replacement, at least in the LA area (prices here are typically higher).

So this definitely comes down to the cost/benefit of self-insuring vs. gambling with a non-exclusionary warranty. With 8 years and 44k under my car's belt, I'd like to think any PDK issue would have reared it's head by now, but maybe I'm just that much closer to the inevitable.

Again, if I knew for sure that the Powertrain warranty covered this repair in full, as seems to be the case in the OP's situation, then I think it's worth the money. Then again, for $1500 more I could upgrade to Gold and cover a lot more potential problems.Decisions, decisions.

Ark20

If paying an extra $1500 guarantees the PDK is covered then I would certainly do it. There is a lot of ambiguity on this forum with PDK and 3rd party warranty(and levels) which is understandable. Although i don’t think I have come across any thread where a powertrain warranty holder was declined a transmission with the same codes as me. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m thinking of calling Fidelity to find out how they determined that my situation was a candidate for a new transmission. Would that be helpful for folks?