Jeahbladejeah

I hope we all agree LEOs should not be tasked with traffic stops for air fresheners or 7mph over the limit. We have the technology to snap a pic, record the necessary data, and send infractions through the mail.

On topic, I've had some tickets in Audis but not in my 911. I used to play dumb every time -- "sorry I didn't know I was going that fast", "I didn't know the limit", "I had cruise control set for 5mph over but coming down that hill". 100% success rate for getting a ticket. The one time I was pulled over in my 911 the officer observed quick acceleration from two cars back and I popped my breaks before he could pace me. Could easily have been exhibition of speed. I pulled onto a side street of a side street, turned off the car, and had DL and insurance ready to go. He asked me if I knew the limit. I demonstrated knowledge of my surroundings and the limits, including a reduction of the speed limit 1/2 mile prior. He asked me how fast I was going and I said "I may have been going a little faster than the limit". He checked for warrants and then let me go.

So, sample size of 5, there's definitely something to be said for being straightforward and honest. But that doesn't mean you have to admit guilt. The two are not mutually exclusive. Always be respectful and accept the officer's decision whatever it is. Fight the ticket in court if it's worth it to you.

Big Swole

Actually IMO what you described it probably a better comparison, however IMO the "CHARGE" and likely conviction wouldn't be much different.

And trust me, She WILL suffer punishment and it'll be stiff. The main reason why is you are forgetting what the public will do to her for the rest of her life as on officer. She's hated for her UNIFORM more than just her mistake that cost a life.

Where as a surgeon might be on the news for one evening and then forgotten about. You wouldn't have Death threats for the rest of your life. Plus, she LOST her pension that I'm sure she's been paying into for her 25+ years. A surgeon will still have what ever money they saved / invested (minus whatever was lost in a civil suit).

Please don't think I'm arguing with you here, I'm merely sharing things that most civilians will never have to think about when it comes to risking your life for $40-70K per year and then losing it ALL over a brainfart like hers. With the Media, race baiters, social media, Doxing of officers homes and lives, etc. This will be FAR WORSE for her IMO than a surgeon that made the mistake you described.

Oh, and she'll obviously NEVER work in any capacity of an LEO ever again either..So yes, she loses a lot too.

Big Swole

Back on topic....( Thanks to those who agreed with me and the difference in the comparisons...)



Don't forgot that "Traffic Stops" don't always serve the purpose most civilians "Think" they do.
Do you know how many Murders, Violent Felons, and / or Crimes have been solved due to the "Basic" traffic stop??
Officers that we refer to as "Traffic ****'s" are just out to write citations, however the REAL cops that want to make a difference use "basic" traffic stops to find other things and lock up BAD people.

People never think about the millions of other aspects of the job other than Citations ( referred to a "Revenue Generation" by most as usual. lol ) when they receive a citation.

Just hope if you're stopped, that you're stopped by the officers like me that truly hate writing citations and tend to be too "Nice" by giving tons of warnings.
However, I collared my share of criminals or people with warrants off of many basic traffic stops.

awittig

+1 on this - my brother and father are/were career LEO. They don't care that you rolled thru a stop sign - they care about the guy with outstanding warrants that just rolled thru that stop sign.

They've both said that their biggest fear on the job is getting hit while on the side of the road conducting a "basic" traffic stop.

Jeahbladejeah

I love to correct my own bias with evidence. Is there a resource you can point to that supports this?

Edit to add: based on the show COPS, it's true most people who get into trouble get caught because they had outstanding warrants at the time of a traffic stop. I'm just curious to see the statistics on how many of these are violent offenders.

Big Swole

I'd love to be able to provide some sort of true stats for you, but I don't think there's just one place you could get it ALL
As for my dept. and surrounding depts during my 15+ years,, we taken several off the road.

Now, the percentage that catch someone really bad vs. just normal people breaking normal traffic laws, I'm sure it's very LOW

However, if someone you loved was the victim of some horrible crime, no matter how small the percentage, you'd be glad we caught them, Correct????

Quality over Quantity should be the focus here.




Now, off the record, I'm not gonna sit here and try to tell you that "Revenue" doesn't make the world go round... Depts. / Municipalities are just like businesses. Without funds, they don't survive.
But that not an officers job, NOR is it their folks. We don't think about, nor do we ever see the "revenue" from traffic stops, so it makes no difference to us. People assume it does, but we still make the same old Chity salaries we've always made for doing this....lol

Manoverpdk

Below.

Manoverpdk

Thank you for your service .
This is an especially tough time.
The 99% are good guys rule applies to most all, including doctors, teachers, salesman (maybe not 99%. ). But you guys are the only ones that do for $50k and put your life on the line each day.

Sporty

No disrespect or anything, but cops in my town with a few+ years and surrounding, are making 100k++ a year and these are in very low crime towns. Plus, retirement at an early age with nice pension and benefits. Still, all it takes is one bad actor that they stop and all the $ in the world is not enough to compensate for anything that goes very wrong.
I've always been honest, respectful and polite and it has worked for me 90% of the time.

Next question: If pulled over for minor infraction and you've had say a few glasses of wine/beer at dinner but are otherwise 'fine' should you admit if asked the question (is this putting the LEO in an obligatory position?) or are you in this case better off not being so forthcoming (this way, again, assuming your fine, you are not putting him/her in the position to require you to step out of the car)....hmmmm?

LargePuppy

The best / obvious answer here would probably be... if you're having a few glasses of wine / beer, make sure you can hold your **** together or just don't... it removes the subsequent uncomfortable questions you may have to answer....

Rudyr

We do, but a few things to consider:

• Those will be civil, not criminal. You'll have a different set of rights and ability to challenge those.
• Those will likely be operated by private, 3rd parties who profit from the infractions. This leads to incentives to make the thresholds very aggressive.
• Expect these automated systems to be guilty of systemic racism. Not to make this political, just stating a likely to emerge fact, you can 10/10 expect the racial distribution of these automated infractions to be scrutinized and the cameras (probably via locations) will be deemed "racist".
• Tangential, this is how traffic is enforced in China. Think about the long term implications of automated mechanisms to police citizens, how China operates will be the path you're setting society toward (e.g. social credit system, etc.) Yes, I'm speculating, but I think I'm more likely right than wrong on this one.

In my opinion, law enforcement should be hard. It should require the work of a human being with all of our human limitations to enforce rules and regulations that can lead to loss of liberty and life. Once you add computer systems, AI, cameras, etc. you're doing to law enforcement what Amazon did to small business; you're going to make it impossible for individuals to truly exercise their freedom (which yes, includes the freedom to not follow rules and assume the risk of consequences) versus the highly optimized LE machine. I'd rather have a police officer make a mistake .01% of the time versus living in a world where a computer is correctly enforcing every law 99.99% of the time...enjoy setting your cruise control to 65.

Sporty

"The best / obvious answer here would probably be... if you're having a few glasses of wine / beer, make sure you can hold your **** together or just don't... it removes the subsequent uncomfortable questions you may have to answer.... "

Regardless, even if you are able to "hold your composure", it is almost a routine/standard question that will be asked let's say on a Saturday night at 10PM or later while driving home from a nice dinner with wife and friends , etc.

Big Swole

I'll address your "Wine" question first. This is David talking and not Officer "E***d" talking.
If you're stopped in GA or more than likely anywhere, SAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even though I hate those "baiters" and "auditors" and social media goons that do nothing but try to F**k with police and record it,
at least some of them have it right. DON'T ANSWER QUESTIONS while remaining calm and polite. Give them your required documents and let them do whatever they stopped you for.
When you start answer questions, you're talking yourself Right into a possible D.U.I. if you've been drinking. Cops want you to talk so they can get a "whiff" of your breath to use as P.C. to get you out and have you do the monkey tricks (field sobriety examinations).

As for the $100K per year and GREAT pensions, those are very FEW and FAR between these days. Only in certain parts of the country to officer get paid that kind of money!!
These days in MOST departments officers get paid a decent wage but Retirments / Pensions are a thing of the PAST. I got lucky to be in the old retirement program but it's still ONLY 2% per year of service, and I have to pay into it.
So since I started late in life (34 years old) when I get my 80 points at age 57, I'll still only have 23 years of service. That's only 46% of my Average years salary (based on 3 highest years of the past 5). At my dept. you can Only max out at 70% after doing 35 years of Service!!!!!!!!! And that's for the old hats like me....The officer hired within the last 7-8 years ONLY GET 1% PER YEAR OF SERVICE!!! WTF can live on That!!!
I'll end up having to work until I'm around 60 to pad things a bit (Extra 2% per year).


I'm 49, on my 16th year of service and barely made over $60k this past year with normal duty. I work a TON of OT (off duty in uniform details) to earn an extra $25-$35K per year. I don't mind sharing that kind of thing. It's give the normal folks that think LEO's just have it made with pay and retirements (I spelled out my retirement above, which isn't great by any means...Although I'm thankful for it)

rhody718

In regards to the original topic....probably half a dozen times? Fought them all (one was legitimately 30 in a 25...) and got all but 1 either dismissed or dropped to a non-moving violation.

Sadly, the one I couldn't "beat" was the only one I've gotten in my Pcar (turns out countermeasures can't save you when you blow past an unmarked car at 100). Court magistrate had a hard-on for dinging speeders, especially those that don't have a *real* reason for driving that fast. He did however, drop the fine to the minimum and then asked about the car and made some light-hearted comments "those cars go fast just by lookin at 'em". But at the end of the day I still had to eat that one. It was only a month ago too, I'm dreading what my insurance renewal is going to be, but I've had nothing else on my driving record for the last 10 years so maybe it won't be too bad.

911.

I've never been pulled over. Probably cause I never pull over.