andrewjn

Just venting! Why is there so much confusion when we describe a manual transmission! Its simple. A manual transmission has a third pedal. Anything else is an automatic! Why are there some people (including dealers and other professionals) who still think that a PDK with steering wheel shifters is a manual? This is all so frustrating to me! PDK or other steering wheel shifters are automatics.....

wareaglescott

Disagree. If you are manually shifting the gears what does it matter if you are pushing a pedal in or pulling shift paddles? Everything isn't black and white.

The mechanical workings of the PDK with a dual clutch are more the makings of a manual box than an automatic with a torque converter.

YTownSpyder

I agree with your opinion here but the previous poster is correct in that it is no longer black and white. For most of us on here a manual is a third pedal. I will say that when I look at cars on autotrader or what not I don’t even look at the description I just study the pictures because I already know what I’m looking at or for

Rennolazine

To a large extent I agree. I love pdk but its not full control. Sometimes the paddle inputs dont register, espeially when you are skipping gears or transition from relaxed driving to maneuvering. It works almost perfectly in manual mode, but the manual override in automatic mode has some bugs and very complicated TCU programming that make it less predictable than a proper 3rd pedal. Manual is 100% manual.. Except rev match, but thats defeatable by doing it yourself.

Guards_Red_991

It matters because it takes more attention and finesse to coordinate your foot and hand to shift. PDK is just pushing a flappy paddle... A monkey can do that.

Driving a manual is more engaging than a PDK, there's no way around it.

spiderv6

Agree. Pulling the flappy paddles in a PDK doesn't make it a manual. In any way, shape or form.

This has the makings of an epic Rennlist thread

Bob Z.

I remember when I was looking for a pre-owned 991 with what I call a real manual, many ads had stated the car was a manual; however, if there were interior pictures I would see a PDK. Others that did not have interior pics required me to contact the seller and several times I was told that it was faster, I could shift it manually, etc. Sorry, a manual to me means a 3rd pedal, period. And if Porsche did not offer a real manual I would not have ordered one.

wareaglescott

Well I would argue going faster in a PDK is more engaging. That is the great thing about the car hobby is to each his own and there are plenty of options to suit everyone. I mean the same guys that argue about the extra engagement the clutch pedals provide also have no problem using all the modern nannies built into the cars. A monkey can surely do that. Personally I dont need a 3rd pedal in every one of my cars to feel engaged, nothing wrong with those that prefer it though. Not sure why it always has to be such a heated debate. Just buy what you want and drive what you want. Who really cares otherwise.

Bob Z.

The PDK is not that much faster so you need a better arugment than that; however, I will never knock someone for driving a car with a PDK or any dual-clutch since some people need one for medical reasons, or they just don't know how to drive a stick.

LexVan

From my experience, PDK drivers work out 7 days/week. While true manual car drivers work out 4-5 days/week.

good2go

This thread is hilarious.

Of course real real men drive...

LOL

chuckbdc

Amazes me that anyone cares.

jfischet

let's think of "manual" not as manually shifting the gears (because that covers sport-a-matic and tiptronic) and think of "manual" as manually engaging and disengaging the clutch.

MidEngineRules

No offense but this is the idiot perspective. If you really think about shifting and when to shift a PDK or sequential gearbox is the thinking person's choice. You won't ever shift optimally with a manual. You can shift optimally with PDK. If I'm driving for excitement (to use a word other than racing), then keeping the car in the perfect gear for the situation is ideal. You'll find for a given stretch you'll make more shifts with PDK than you would a manual (optimizing rpms), and you can also do things like short shifting coming out of corners where you can't with a manual without upsetting the balance you need to exit the corner under power. So I equate the most efficient use of PDK more like the use of a motorcycle gearbox in that you can manipulate it much more accurately for the sake of efficiency than a manual for which limits control. That's the upside. The downside of PDK is the kick down feature. If I want to short shift under WOT the gearbox may change gears for me when I wouldn't want it to. You have to know the throttle pedal well enough to not press it that hard. PDK also keeps your eyes on the road so your head is only concerned with what gear to be in, not the mechanics of manual shifting. Ultimately there's no argument that manual is better in any way. There's only 1 thing you can do with a manual gearbox that can't be done with PDK and that's blow up the motor. Having said all that, I have both currently and in my 10 Porsches I've owned, I'm split...5 manuals and 5 PDK. Both have virtue but neither is decidedly for idiots (or Monkeys).

Valvefloat991

Whether the PDK is faster or more efficient is not the question. If transmission is capable of shifting gears by itself, it's an automatic. Period.

By the way, the PDK's advantage in speed is mostly in standing start acceleration, where it can be combined with launch control. Going through the gears, the PDK has a much smaller advantage due to its quicker shifts. But even that is partially offset by the PDK's heavier weight and the power it saps from the engine to energize its hydraulic pumps.