Thinking about a Track Day
04-05-2019, 01:17 PM
#46
04-05-2019, 01:30 PM
#47
Race Director
07-14-2019, 07:43 PM
#48
Pro
Thread Starter
Well I did it
I believe (from my own experience) that the 911 is the one car you can track on a weekend and drive to work the next day. As a beginner, you will not harm you car - other than driving off the track and crashing, of course. Personally, if I could not track my 911, I would not even own one. I have more track time in my last two C2's than my GT3, it is something that everyone who owns a 911should consider experiencing at least once. I gave it a shot and started down the slippery slope and would not have it any other way. There are three things that I have done regularly in my life that have provided total stress relief:
Extreme Skiing- Done now that I have a metal knee
Driving on the track - Less stress on the knee
Scuba diving - Still doing it and love it.
Extreme Skiing- Done now that I have a metal knee
Driving on the track - Less stress on the knee
Scuba diving - Still doing it and love it.
My experience:
After a quick breakfast and orientation, we were split into two groups: Track, and skidpad drills. I assume that those who had experience got the track. I got skidpad, which was straightforward slalom and braking drills.. Autocross was a part of our scheduled day and I had planned to not do that, but I kicked a$$ in the slalom and made a plan to do it later.
Then we hit the track. They had divided the track into halves, one group per half. Their rationale was to not make you have to learn the whole track at once and let you bite it off in easy chunks. There are three main straightaways and they divided the course so two of them were sliced in half. This was pretty smart because the best opportunity for crashing would be at the end of one of these. When you got to the end of each track half, you backtracked on the course (which was interesting because we kept our speed but all the markings were moot), and there was a swapping procedure when we started the half again that allowed each person to have a turn following the leader. Of course one half of the track had one straightaway that required significant braking prior to turn entry, and the other, more "interesting" part just had a ton of turns, which was fun.. Max speed on any part of the course in that "initial" session was about 80 mph.
You think that sounds slow because you have gone way faster on an interstate? Go do it on a real racetrack road course. It's a different animal and will certainly check a box on your bucket list. As soon as you get your Porsche on a real bonafide racing road course and floor it, you know you're doing something special.
After about a dozen laps on each half, we came in and did lunch.
Coming out of lunch, they divided us up into various groups, Autocross, and 2-3 track groups, full track (no halvesies). Helmet time, and oddly, I was put in the "fast" track group, going out first, which included a lot of the experienced people. Of course I was somewhat stoked about that but not sure what was going to happen. I was also first car behind the leader.
Well, this was a bit more of a serious operation. To keep up would require a lot more of everything. As I write this, hours later, I am still buzzing like hell. It's total concentration, much faster, holding on for dear life and thinking, at each turn, what I am doing wrong and how I can improve. My racing line was pretty much on point, but I have a lot to learn, obviously. The leader-follower swap is done "on the fly" about halfway down a straightaway. where the leader signals the swap and you need to pull out of line and let everyone pass and now you're at the end. Our line was stretched out enough that the last car didn't get to me before we hit the turn at the end and although I was going "slow", I still made him take a bit of an outside line through the turn which could have been avoided if I had used something called "the brakes."
I did hold my own in the "fast group" but I felt I wasn't quite getting it right. As I was driving I was analyzing what I was doing wrong but there is a lot going on and the next technical demand comes on fast. After 12 laps, I was about 300 feet behind the car in front of me. That isn't too bad when you are doing triple-digit speeds on the straights but after another lap, after I let one of my group mates pass, I just decided to hit pit lane and come in two laps early. I was fast, but they were faster and that was just the extent of it. Time to "hit the books" as they say.
What I was doing wrong: NOT completely using the car's capabilities. In the so-called "fast group" (where drivers better than I am hang out), you either do it or you don't. You need to get on it full throttle every time it makes sense, and use the car's dynamics in the turn. The issue was at the end of those three straights! At the end, I'd brake late like a good citizen, but then be on it too soon and be pushing and obviously have no way to plant my foot to the floor and then get on it full throttle again. I was "driving through turns", going fast, yes, but listening to my tires whine through too many feet of the turn. It seems like you could learn over the course of several laps, but maybe I just need "remedial" work!
Anyway, I know I will do better next time. I am happy I did it. Frankly when you think about it, it takes b*lls to risk your car (or bacon) like this. And even if you don't crash, you're really "using" the technology that you paid for and that could possibly have a cost. A slightly undesirable side-effect is that any disdain you have for your, uhh, "fellow motorists" will probably be amped up geometrically. Be kind!
Last edited by HD2pct; 07-14-2019 at 08:32 PM.
07-14-2019, 08:06 PM
#49
Don't worry. The 911 is extremely capable with very high limits which is good and bad; good if you know what you're doing, bad if you don't.I wouldn't expect anyone to get to the true limits of the car without a couple hundred hours of track time.
07-14-2019, 08:25 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Congrats on your first track day. Driving is a skill and can take years to get DE "fast" 
If you really enjoyed it and want more, I highly recommend finding good instruction via your local PCA chapter or other top notch track organizer. If you know any experienced drivers, they should be able to point you in the right direction. Quality instruction is crucial in learning good habits and building a solid foundation of skills. Don't worry about being "fast"; just focus on learning the skills. Speed will follow.
When i did my first couple of track days, I had the pleasure or riding shotgun with several very experienced DE drivers and racers. It is truly eye opening and redefines your definition of fast and what a street car is capable of. I highly recommend it if you can.
Be safe and have fun!
If you really enjoyed it and want more, I highly recommend finding good instruction via your local PCA chapter or other top notch track organizer. If you know any experienced drivers, they should be able to point you in the right direction. Quality instruction is crucial in learning good habits and building a solid foundation of skills. Don't worry about being "fast"; just focus on learning the skills. Speed will follow.
When i did my first couple of track days, I had the pleasure or riding shotgun with several very experienced DE drivers and racers. It is truly eye opening and redefines your definition of fast and what a street car is capable of. I highly recommend it if you can.
Be safe and have fun!
07-14-2019, 08:43 PM
#51
Pro
Thread Starter
That is something that really struck me. Right from the beginning, we hit the track with enthusiasm, almost as if they know that it's impossible to crash your car unless you're an idiot! You gotta love that confidence in the product!
07-14-2019, 09:09 PM
#52
Pro
Thread Starter
Congrats on your first track day. Driving is a skill and can take years to get DE "fast"
If you really enjoyed it and want more, I highly recommend finding good instruction via your local PCA chapter or other top notch track organizer. If you know any experienced drivers, they should be able to point you in the right direction. Quality instruction is crucial in learning good habits and building a solid foundation of skills. Don't worry about being "fast"; just focus on learning the skills. Speed will follow.
When i did my first couple of track days, I had the pleasure or riding shotgun with several very experienced DE drivers and racers. It is truly eye opening and redefines your definition of fast and what a street car is capable of. I highly recommend it if you can.
Be safe and have fun!
If you really enjoyed it and want more, I highly recommend finding good instruction via your local PCA chapter or other top notch track organizer. If you know any experienced drivers, they should be able to point you in the right direction. Quality instruction is crucial in learning good habits and building a solid foundation of skills. Don't worry about being "fast"; just focus on learning the skills. Speed will follow.
When i did my first couple of track days, I had the pleasure or riding shotgun with several very experienced DE drivers and racers. It is truly eye opening and redefines your definition of fast and what a street car is capable of. I highly recommend it if you can.
Be safe and have fun!
07-14-2019, 10:38 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
So just to clarify... You did a day of lead follow and you think you just need 1 hour more of instruction and you will be ready to roll? That is not going to work with any HPDE organization and I would not want to be on the track with you. If you do private track days then go for it, but please get safety, flag, car control, course, and just plain ol track instruction if you plan to do this more. It may save yours or someone else's life, not to mention some wallets. Truly glad you had fun though and I hope you stick with it.
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phefner (07-14-2019)
07-14-2019, 11:06 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Btw, i just switched to Porsche auto insurance. They cover track days (included in the premium) which is cheap AF!!!!
There are limitations. My understanding is it has to be a Porsche sponsored with instructors present and it doesnt cover collision during hot laps and definitely not over 100mph. Better than nothing if u ask me.
There are limitations. My understanding is it has to be a Porsche sponsored with instructors present and it doesnt cover collision during hot laps and definitely not over 100mph. Better than nothing if u ask me.
07-14-2019, 11:29 PM
#55
Race Car
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HD2pct: I have to say I had a little chuckle reading your post. I've got hundreds of track days myself and 20 + years doing Instructing and I still know I have room for improvement, so you *might* need more than an hour. If you were out there on you first day without an Instructor, you were having fun - but you weren't learning anything. it's pretty hard to do on your own. So next time, do a school with Instructors and if you get a good one, he'll show you things you probably have no idea of doing on your own and its all going to be braking and cornering, and feeling the balance of the car. Any fool can mash the throttle and point it down the straight. When I get a student that wants to learn and listens, we can really change the way he drives by the end of the day. When I get one that just wants to tune me out and nail the throttle - that's OK too, he paid his money and I'll shut up and just ride along (provided he's not reckless). But that's the guy that doesn't learn anything and he's no faster or composed at the end of the day then he was in the first session.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
And this: "That is something that really struck me. Right from the beginning, we hit the track with enthusiasm, almost as if they know that it's impossible to crash your car unless you're an idiot! You gotta love that confidence in the product"
No. You can ball up a Porsche just as easily as you can a Mustang or even a SUV on the track. There is nothing magic about it being a Porsche. What does happen though, is when you get into a car with this much power and high handling limits, you usually crash really big. When you lose something like a E36 BMW 318i at the track, you usually crash small. There's a big difference hitting the Armco at 40 mph than there is at 90 mph. A little humility at the track is a good thing.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
And this: "That is something that really struck me. Right from the beginning, we hit the track with enthusiasm, almost as if they know that it's impossible to crash your car unless you're an idiot! You gotta love that confidence in the product"
No. You can ball up a Porsche just as easily as you can a Mustang or even a SUV on the track. There is nothing magic about it being a Porsche. What does happen though, is when you get into a car with this much power and high handling limits, you usually crash really big. When you lose something like a E36 BMW 318i at the track, you usually crash small. There's a big difference hitting the Armco at 40 mph than there is at 90 mph. A little humility at the track is a good thing.
07-15-2019, 12:11 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
HD2pct: I have to say I had a little chuckle reading your post. I've got hundreds of track days myself and 20 + years doing Instructing and I still know I have room for improvement, so you *might* need more than an hour. If you were out there on you first day without an Instructor, you were having fun - but you weren't learning anything. it's pretty hard to do on your own. So next time, do a school with Instructors and if you get a good one, he'll show you things you probably have no idea of doing on your own and its all going to be braking and cornering, and feeling the balance of the car. Any fool can mash the throttle and point it down the straight. When I get a student that wants to learn and listens, we can really change the way he drives by the end of the day. When I get one that just wants to tune me out and nail the throttle - that's OK too, he paid his money and I'll shut up and just ride along (provided he's not reckless). But that's the guy that doesn't learn anything and he's no faster or composed at the end of the day then he was in the first session.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
And this: "That is something that really struck me. Right from the beginning, we hit the track with enthusiasm, almost as if they know that it's impossible to crash your car unless you're an idiot! You gotta love that confidence in the product"
No. You can ball up a Porsche just as easily as you can a Mustang or even a SUV on the track. There is nothing magic about it being a Porsche. What does happen though, is when you get into a car with this much power and high handling limits, you usually crash really big. When you lose something like a E36 BMW 318i at the track, you usually crash small. There's a big difference hitting the Armco at 40 mph than there is at 90 mph. A little humility at the track is a good thing.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
And this: "That is something that really struck me. Right from the beginning, we hit the track with enthusiasm, almost as if they know that it's impossible to crash your car unless you're an idiot! You gotta love that confidence in the product"
No. You can ball up a Porsche just as easily as you can a Mustang or even a SUV on the track. There is nothing magic about it being a Porsche. What does happen though, is when you get into a car with this much power and high handling limits, you usually crash really big. When you lose something like a E36 BMW 318i at the track, you usually crash small. There's a big difference hitting the Armco at 40 mph than there is at 90 mph. A little humility at the track is a good thing.
especially the part about people balling up their cars which is much easier than the OP seems to think
07-15-2019, 11:36 AM
#58
Fairly certain I won't track my 911, but i have done the Atlanta, the 2-day Precision Birmingham PTXs and have reservations in November for the Masters 2-day PTX, again at Birmingham (BTW if you're thinking of going to the Birmingham PTX, these courses sell out fast, the Masters is sold out for the rest of the year except for December).
TBH, for the wear and tear on the cars, track insurance, facility rental, food, instruction, beverages/snacks and miscellaneous,, the introductory and intermediary courses seem to be at a reasonable price. The advanced courses are at another level, about 2x the cost, but if you complete the course successfully you can apply for an SCCA license. What's the cost to get the SCCA certification through another means? I don't know, maybe someone could say.
I'll enjoy my 911, driving it moderately fast when safe and possible while on the road (currently in N. Carolina, drove from Asheville on the Blue Ridge PKY, then 276 towards Waynesville yesterday, nice curvy stretch w/zero traffic). Great fun.
TBH, for the wear and tear on the cars, track insurance, facility rental, food, instruction, beverages/snacks and miscellaneous,, the introductory and intermediary courses seem to be at a reasonable price. The advanced courses are at another level, about 2x the cost, but if you complete the course successfully you can apply for an SCCA license. What's the cost to get the SCCA certification through another means? I don't know, maybe someone could say.
I'll enjoy my 911, driving it moderately fast when safe and possible while on the road (currently in N. Carolina, drove from Asheville on the Blue Ridge PKY, then 276 towards Waynesville yesterday, nice curvy stretch w/zero traffic). Great fun.
07-15-2019, 12:44 PM
#59
Pro
Thread Starter
HD2pct: I have to say I had a little chuckle reading your post. I've got hundreds of track days myself and 20 + years doing Instructing and I still know I have room for improvement, so you *might* need more than an hour. If you were out there on you first day without an Instructor, you were having fun - but you weren't learning anything. it's pretty hard to do on your own. So next time, do a school with Instructors and if you get a good one, he'll show you things you probably have no idea of doing on your own and its all going to be braking and cornering, and feeling the balance of the car. Any fool can mash the throttle and point it down the straight. When I get a student that wants to learn and listens, we can really change the way he drives by the end of the day. When I get one that just wants to tune me out and nail the throttle - that's OK too, he paid his money and I'll shut up and just ride along (provided he's not reckless). But that's the guy that doesn't learn anything and he's no faster or composed at the end of the day then he was in the first session.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
.
Plus, you want to get a ride with an Instructor or two in their own cars. You'll be pretty impressed at what they can do with a car lap after lap. It's that smoothness and consistency that separates a pro race driver from an amateur guy like me or most any other weekend warrior that doesn't do it for a living. I can run a super hot lap or two out of twenty and be off a second on the others, but a professional race car driver can put down those hot laps EVERY lap and he's varying by tenths of a second. That consistency is the key. That's really your goal to become a good track driver - smooth/consistent.
Make sure you have track day insurance unless you can afford to write the whole car off.
.
I mean I could use an hour one-on-one with a driving instructor sitting in both seats, pointing out techniques and showing me what bad things I am doing and setting me on a good path. Once I had that foundation, I would know what to practice and what to avoid doing. I think you even suggested as much in your post.
07-21-2019, 10:45 PM
#60
Pro
Thread Starter
Oh, please. I didn't mean I could win a world championship with an hour of instruction. Not sure why certain people want to interpret it that way.
I mean I could use an hour one-on-one with a driving instructor sitting in both seats, pointing out techniques and showing me what bad things I am doing and setting me on a good path. Once I had that foundation, I would know what to practice and what to avoid doing. I think you even suggested as much in your post.
I mean I could use an hour one-on-one with a driving instructor sitting in both seats, pointing out techniques and showing me what bad things I am doing and setting me on a good path. Once I had that foundation, I would know what to practice and what to avoid doing. I think you even suggested as much in your post.
BTW, this is the course on which we raced. It's the "North Circuit" of Autobahn, about 1.5 miles. Just a fairly recent posting. There is an in-car portion about 2:30 in where it shows he was getting to about 120 on the longest straight. In my case I was doing maybe 105. I'm going to get instruction as to how you go from that to shooting out the end at top speed. You can watch racing all the time and be a fan but when you're piloting the car and have options as to what to do, it gets interesting.
I post this stuff because I want to show what it's like for a newbie. It's extremely exhilarating. If you do it once, you'll be hooked.