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4 point 0: You talk a lot of smack and you clearly have money to play so lets make a bet and the forum will be the Judge.
I will bet you $10,000 USD CASH that the bottom of the Vektor Header on driver side sits 3 inches lower than the OEM Header does.
If they "clearly" do not sit 3 inches lower than I just paid for your Vectors and your Akra Exhaust.
Now its time to put up or shut up. I'm tired of your nonsense and X ray eyes that can see HP and flow and 10mm and my wife naked in a thong.
If its 2 1/2 to 3" I win. If its NO LOWER or anything less than 2 1/2 inches you win. Since you say its NO LOWER then 2 1/2" is a mile
I am calling you out right here and now. Put up the 10k or STFU. We can send the money via PP to anyone on the forum who wishes to be the Escrow, I dont care who, maybe a Moderator.
I will go and measure the stock header with video to show my tire pressure isnt 75lbs and that its a real 12" ruler. You do the same or we can use the OP photo as the gauge.
I just went to my garage and took the measurements. Here you go.. The tape measure itself is 3 1/2 high. The distance of tape is 2 1/2 inches. So, the factory header sits exactly 6" from the ground.
If the OP has the same 3 1/2" tape measure (?) and had 1/2" if distance to the Vektors, then it sat 4" from the ground. Thus, the Vektors sit 2" lower than the factory header does.
Let me be very clear. I want nothing to do with you. I will buy what I want, when I want. I do not care less what your rants are. You are the one that needs to STFU. No one cares about your BS.
I have placed my order and will move on. Your opinion and rants mean zero to me. Read above I don't care if its 5 inches lower. The picture makes it acceptable to me. Couldn't care how many mm in which way it is.
Once again, blowing eveything up. I don't care. Stay away from me and take your medication.
@4 Point 0 exactly why i started to tune out that back and forth. I literally have it on my car, and i live in the san francisco area (which is also why i have FAL). Im not loosing sleep over it. If you wanna lower your car by another 3", ya i would be worried, but i would seriously start questioning your taste. Or if there's something on the road that's just in the goldie lock zone where its tall enough to be in the way, but still 10mm lower than the beam, ya call me unlucky.
@Marc D Gonsalves i went through the exact same phase as you are going through. spent two months researching all this stuff, key take aways:
- any of these headers when paired with sport cats = proven performance and sound improvements
- the question then is how much improvement. which is something i've been trying to figure out. so far my hypothesis have been because vektor provides the most gain in terms of sound / performance by itself, it would also provide the biggest change when paired with sport cats.
regarding the three different brands
- kline has the least amount of information. their stuff looks super dope, but there are barely any visibility into their development process and how / why they are suppose to work better than OEM. The inconel exhaust is suppose to sound better (judging from youtube videos), but their header have not yet been validated in terms of sound and performance (by itself).
- fabspeed is the cheapest option, and its proven to provide decent increase in sound and performance when paired with cats, minimal difference when swapped alone (see SBA's post above)
- vektor has the most amount of information in terms of development, and scientific reasoning on why they designed their headers a certain way (or pretty welds and nonsense according to PTS). From my personal experience, just the header alone is making a significant change in sound. The hope is that the effect would be amplified when i throw on the cats.
If i were you, i would go vektor if you want to maximize on sound and performance, or fabspeed if you want to save some coins. I would skip kline or at least wait until there's more information.
@PTS-BRG thank you for making this my daily amusement. ill go home and check out my tape measure just for you, because <3
Entertainment aside, how much taller the headers are compared to stock is pretty irrelevant, as the beam eats into a lot of the rear clearance. At end of the day you are looking at about 10mms below the beam, which again, could be relevant for some people, but does not affect me.
My only concern is to get correct and truthful information disseminated to the forum. When Vektor says that their headers do not sit any lower than stock I feel the NEED to disprove them and to show the photographic evidence that this is not the case. Whether or not it matters to you or any other potential buyer is subjective and solely up to the buyer. I only want to get the facts out and let people buy whatever they like.
Basic666: Have I ever once chastised you for buying the Vektor or called you any names for choosing vector? No, I havent and I wont. I dont think they are any better or worse than the others so, the choice is yours. I do appreciate your taking the time to show the height and thank you in advance for letting us know how high your tape measure is to get a final answer.
4 point 0: I attack you because you speak false truths. If someone says something enough times people eventually start to believe it. I cannot sit back and have you say:
"The picture shows there is no clearance issue at all" or "they clearly do not sit 3 inches lower than stock" because both of these are lies. Proven with photos and rulers to prove it.
They sit 1/2" below the cross member. Does it matter you? Obviously not. Could it matter to someone else? I think it might and thats why I need to refute your comments.
I knew you were buying the Vektors before you did. If Someone comes out with super high flow intercoolers for $11,000 I also know you will be the first in line.
That is the guy you are. We all know them. The guy who buys the most expensive, the brand names, the ooh and aah look what I got with badges and stickers and logos.
Personally I think the elephant arms are garbage. I think the IPD plenum is poorer performing than the OEM plenum. I came to these conclusions by reading and seeing charts, graphs and reading INDEPENDENT reviews.
Either you choose not to read them or you dont care. Maybe you dont believe them? In any case, we go about things differently.
@Marc D Gonsalves i went through the exact same phase as you are going through. spent two months researching all this stuff, key take aways:
- any of these headers when paired with sport cats = proven performance and sound improvements
- the question then is how much improvement. which is something i've been trying to figure out. so far my hypothesis have been because vektor provides the most gain in terms of sound / performance by itself, it would also provide the biggest change when paired with sport cats.
regarding the three different brands
- kline has the least amount of information. their stuff looks super dope, but there are barely any visibility into their development process and how / why they are suppose to work better than OEM. The inconel exhaust is suppose to sound better (judging from youtube videos), but their header have not yet been validated in terms of sound and performance (by itself).
- fabspeed is the cheapest option, and its proven to provide decent increase in sound and performance when paired with cats, minimal difference when swapped alone (see SBA's post above)
- vektor has the most amount of information in terms of development, and scientific reasoning on why they designed their headers a certain way (or pretty welds and nonsense according to PTS). From my personal experience, just the header alone is making a significant change in sound. The hope is that the effect would be amplified when i throw on the cats.
If i were you, i would go vektor if you want to maximize on sound and performance, or fabspeed if you want to save some coins. I would skip kline or at least wait until there's more information.
basic666 - thanks for the info. I am leaning towards Vektor over Kline. Partly because, as you noted, there isnt much info on their product. I’ll try to get in contact with each of their sales people before I make a final decision. The 11mm’s the header hangs below the cross member doesn’t scare me. I’m in a cab, my car site higher than your coups anyway. But if I could find similar sound and performance that doesn’t eat into ground clearance I would go for it. I have to say, your sound clip with just your headers sounds about the best I’ve heard. I wish more people would make sound clips like that. Too many sound comparisons out there with people revving the **** out of their cars.... it all sounds the same to me with all the high revving.
Once I figure out which headers to get, I’ll have to start looking at cats, I’d like to do them both at the same time.
I just went to my garage and took the measurements. Here you go.. The tape measure itself is 3 1/2 high. The distance of tape is 2 1/2 inches. So, the factory header sits exactly 6" from the ground.
If the OP has the same 3 1/2" tape measure (?) and had 1/2" if distance to the Vektors, then it sat 4" from the ground. Thus, the Vektors sit 2" lower than the factory header does.
basic666 already measured the Vektor headers as 10mm lower than the rear cross member. All you have to do is measure how much higher the stock headers are above the rear cross member. Add the two numbers together and you get how much lower the Vektor headers sit compared to the stock ones. Your tape measures are completely different, so you can't use that as your reference point. Of course, there is some error due to user measurement variation and resolution of the tape measure, but probably close enough to be within 1/4" inch of actual.
ILL SAY IT AGAIN SO YOU CAN CUT AND PASTE...THE VEKTOR HEADERS SIT 3 INCHES LOWER THAN THE STOCK HEADERS DO AND 1/2 LOWER THAN THE CROSSMEMBER.
Looking at your pictures, they look to be from a slightly low angle. But let's just give you the benefit of the doubt and the stock header sits 1 1/4" above the rear crossmember if the picture is actually level. Combine that with basic666 measurement of 10mm = 0.393". We will just stretch that to 1/2" to make the math simple to add to the 1 1/4" for a total of 1 3/4" that the Vektor header is lower than the stock header. And you came to 2" yourself. I will note both values are lower than the 3" you state in this section you said for me to cut and paste. If 4 point 0 had accepted your $10k USD bet in an online forum, would that have been legally binding? No need to answer, I'm just bustin' your *****.
For cats.... I'd say the Akra ones are probably the safest bet as far as CELs go as they are 300cell correct? AWE, Soul, etc are all 200cell?
@PTS-BRG i get where you are coming from, and i believe you have good intentions. but when you act so extreme its hard to take you seriously. and when you are acting like this is your life's crusade or something, people either think you are crazy, or you have personal biases (like maybe its because the folks at vektor did not offer you a discount lol). I think you made your point the first time (and quite a few times after that). Like you said the information is all here, its up to the individual to make the decision. And screaming at people over and over again rarely change their mind. But like i mentioned earlier, something a lot more constructive would be to get yourself a set of kline headers like you promised, and let us know how they perform with just headers alone. You did state at one point they offered to refund if they don't measure up to promised performance.
The folks at vektor are pretty cool peeps. Being my first car install, i ping'd them quite a bit throughout the process, and the dude stayed up way late into the night to help me through it. Do i think they tried to cheat all of us by purposely giving out false info? I really doubt it. I think with the way you were arguing on the forums, everyone would've called u bs. in fact most people did, even i called you bs.
My ruler is 3". I attached the ruler difference below, from lowest part of the beam and lowest part of the headers. Give or take 10mm when converted. To put that in perspective my finger nail fits right in the diff on the ruler. So if you are worried about your car having a finger nail's width of less clearance, stay away!
@Psorcery finally a more constructive comment! I've been reaching out to shops in the bay.. So far only one of them seem to have adequate equipment and have gotten back to me. They are charging $150 for 3 pulls.
I'm pretty new to this but this seems like a pretty good setup no?
FFTEC setup looks as good as you're going to get short of a wind tunnel setup. Blower fans at the front for coolant and oil coolers. Blowers for each intercooler. FFTEC has been in the game a long time of tuning cars. They were big in Evos and branched out to GTRs, BMWs, and everything else fast. Other shops I'm familiar with in the area are GST Motorsport and Blacktrax Performance, but I don't know if they have the blower setups for the intercoolers. Couldn't hurt to ask though!
FFTEC setup looks as good as you're going to get short of a wind tunnel setup. Blower fans at the front for coolant and oil coolers. Blowers for each intercooler. FFTEC has been in the game a long time of tuning cars. They were big in Evos and branched out to GTRs, BMWs, and everything else fast. Other shops I'm familiar with in the area are GST Motorsport and Blacktrax Performance, but I don't know if they have the blower setups for the intercoolers. Couldn't hurt to ask though!
Cool will give that a shot.
Also posted some installation experience / instructions. Check them out if you are thinking about doing the upgrade yourself!
10-12-2018, 06:57 PM
