Standard, Bose, Burmester, or Custom Audio?
09-14-2018, 02:36 PM
#91
Burning Brakes
Did you take the time to fine tune the Bose and try the different options? I will say the Burmester is easier to live since one does not need to fiddle with it as much. I still say for the average listener the Bose is fine and someone else posted that they love the Bose - how can one say that and another say it sucks?!
If you look at the quality of the components on the Bose and even the Burmester, you will see they are of very low quality. Mass produced, paper cones, industrial amp quality.
Without ever listening to it, you can see that based on the components its not high quality. Compared to the aftermarket parts the weight of the magnets/coils, the composition of the materials used on the cones, the higher rating of the amps.. You dont even need to hear it to know it "sucks".
Some people have no problem with the tinny speakers in their televisions and thinks it sounds fine. You will hear sound, but if you could play the same source on two systems side by side there isnt a person on earth who would say the Bose or Burmester sounds better. Its that dramatic. Without a baseline to compare it to it sounds fine
Without ever listening to it, you can see that based on the components its not high quality. Compared to the aftermarket parts the weight of the magnets/coils, the composition of the materials used on the cones, the higher rating of the amps.. You dont even need to hear it to know it "sucks".
Some people have no problem with the tinny speakers in their televisions and thinks it sounds fine. You will hear sound, but if you could play the same source on two systems side by side there isnt a person on earth who would say the Bose or Burmester sounds better. Its that dramatic. Without a baseline to compare it to it sounds fine
09-15-2018, 06:18 AM
#92
There was a Turbo S with the Burmester and a Carrera S with the BOSE in the show room next to each other. I played the exact same music on both, back to back. I find BOSE to make adequate home products and exceptional aviation/everyday use headsets but not very good car audio, IMO. Case in point-Bose in my Audi is just okay but sounds better than the one in a 911. In fact, the Fender system in the VW sounds superior to Bose. Burmester produces significantly cleaner/crisper sound even at high volumes whereas the Bose becomes muddled and wobbled, especially the bass. Neither system pumps out the tight bass that I’m looking for but the Burmester wins hands down. Like I’ve said, the Burm isn’t worth the price tag but it’s better than the alternative for me. Once again, sound is mostly a personal preference and really has to do with the type of music that one listens to. In high end sports cars, a good sound system isn’t very important or even necessary but music is important to me when I’m just cruising.
My 2 cents.That is the way to test 2 car audio systems.
I bet the vast majority who opine on this issue have not done this. Not even tried.
One aftermarket car audio place I went to told me how both Bose & Burmester are crap & they both use cheap speakers. Later I looked up the replacement cost for all the speakers for both & they were NOT cheap. (Maybe he meant wholesale cost
He was certainly not unbiased.
Wanted me to have him rip into my new 911, take up space in the frunk & the rear parcel shelf. Spend ~ 7-8K.
While I like the Burmester sound system very much after extensive testing. I was unable to do any back to back tests of Burmester vs. an aftermarket system. Those tests were days apart.
After market sounded very good but certainly didn't seem to justify spending MORE vs. Burmester + the tearing into the car risk.
I did do Bose vs. Burmester back to back tests, twice. My CDs.
I suspect there is no need for 12 speakers but WHY do all the high end OEM installations have so many speakers?
I do wish I had been able to compare an aftermarket system with Focal speakers. I've read much good re Focal home speakers & headphones & would like to have heard Focal car audio speakers.
I seriously doubt some aftermarket system can blow away the Burmester in the 911 AND cost significantly less.
I suspect you can get the base or Bose & rip it out & spend an additional 7-12K & have a much better system vs. Burmester. But I'm not so sure you would be able to do any back to back testing to be certain.
Maybe if you were close to an aftermarket shop that had a great system installed in a 911 and were close to a Porsche dealer that had a (rare) 911 with a Burmester?
09-15-2018, 08:22 AM
#94
Burning Brakes
im an audio guy... B&W, classe', etc... and a past car audio fan. in my opinion, the noise floor in these cars makes it hard for them to sound good at anything but high volumes at that point, the size of the car is restrictive to support equipment needed to produce high volume and high quality. yes, highs can be better, yes lows can be better (no highs, no lows, it must be bose). i have the bose in my new car and in my previous. i have burmester in my mercedes. all are just slightly better than meh. one of the better sounding factory car stereos was in my 2017 Volvo XC90 with the B&Ws. i personally wouldnt spend the money on the porsche burmester. bose is ok enough and i like the idea of nicks tweeters.
09-15-2018, 01:37 PM
#95
Burning Brakes
From my limited experience with messing around with car audio in my youth, more speakers don't necessarily equate to better sound. 6-8 speakers with a nice subwoofer (+ amp) seems to be the sweet spot. As for minor improvements to stock systems such as BOSE, changing out/adding tweeters and speakers can make a significant improvement. A big challenge in improving sound (tight bass in my case) in a 911 for me is the lack of space to add an amp and a sub. I'll dig into it a bit deeper once my car arrives, I suppose.
09-15-2018, 01:45 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Marineland FL
Posts: 12,493
Likes: 0
Received 3,432 Likes
on
2,347 Posts
Here is a diagram that Bose sent me...I am trying to get one for the newer cars:
09-15-2018, 11:50 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
I have done speaker upgrades in previous cars but its not the same as upgrading the entire system.
Buremester has several levels for each car Brand. Porsche only offers the top end, at least based on the $5300 price.
I have it on two Mercs, just look at the MBUSA car configurator and you will see different Burmester offerings on different models including 3D versions. Some offer more than one tier. On the S class you can opt for the highest offering.
on one mercI have the burmester and uts prettry good. On the other I have the upgraded version, highes available for that class but not the highest of all the versions Merc offers. It has 13 speakers including a huge woofer under the steering wheel above the pebals, has a burmester menu and its awesome.
why did I order the Burmester on 991.2? Uts the most I have ever spent on audio upgrade. Well, because I might have regretted not getting it compared to the Bose, and that alone was worth the price. Now I won’t have any regrets. I can always turn it off if I want to enjoy the car sound.
I test drove the 991.2 S manual, it had Bose. Was not amused at all. Ended up turning it off and drove around with windows open.
Buremester has several levels for each car Brand. Porsche only offers the top end, at least based on the $5300 price.
I have it on two Mercs, just look at the MBUSA car configurator and you will see different Burmester offerings on different models including 3D versions. Some offer more than one tier. On the S class you can opt for the highest offering.
on one mercI have the burmester and uts prettry good. On the other I have the upgraded version, highes available for that class but not the highest of all the versions Merc offers. It has 13 speakers including a huge woofer under the steering wheel above the pebals, has a burmester menu and its awesome.
why did I order the Burmester on 991.2? Uts the most I have ever spent on audio upgrade. Well, because I might have regretted not getting it compared to the Bose, and that alone was worth the price. Now I won’t have any regrets. I can always turn it off if I want to enjoy the car sound.
I test drove the 991.2 S manual, it had Bose. Was not amused at all. Ended up turning it off and drove around with windows open.
09-16-2018, 09:21 AM
#99
They were NOT $5 speakers. Like the aftermarket Audio guy claimed.
Of course, you cannot tell which speakers sound better based on price. However, if a guy selling brand X speakers to install in your car, tells you Bose & Burmester are cheap junk and you then look up & compare retail price on his Woofer vs. Burmester, what does it really tell you?
A Burmester dash tweeter retails for $192 but I saw it on sale for $146. Front door woofer $165/$127.
I added up the cost of all 12 Burmester speakers & got $2,175. SubW alone was $$793 (Sale $672)
The 6 Audison Speakers a shop wanted to install retailed for $1,400 + cost of other equipment + installation + tuning cost.
If I wanted 6 Focal speakers retail on those speakers = $2,700 + cost of other equipment + installation + tuning cost.
This is why I maintain the customer should try to do a audio comparison, with their own music (lossless) in a 911 with Bose, Burmester & then try to hear what the aftermarket shop proposes to sell them ...in a 911.
Look at cost + what they thought of the different sound systems.
Not easy or even possible to do but IMO, much better than merely taking someone's claim that the system they want to charge you to install, will blow away Burmester's cheap $10 speakers.
Will a $3k Speaker system sound better than a $2k speaker system, who knows w/o a listening test?
With the amp, if you can see the specs, you can at least compare. Although a listening test still much better. With speakers, there is no substitute for listening & comparing yourself.
I'm still waiting for someone to post that they listened to the $5,300 Burmester in a 911 & instead had XYZ Audio install an ABC system that blows the Burmester away for only $3,000.
LOL.
BTW, I wonder if anyone who bought a 911 with Burmester, later went to an audio shop to have then remove door panels & install sound insulation? Supposedly, Porsche does NOT have such insulation, even with the Burmester.
IDK if true or not. When I get my car, I will not remove a door panel just to check.
09-16-2018, 09:39 AM
#100
Three Wheelin'
There is no insulation in the doors on the stock system.
If you just insulated the doors with factory speakers you would get an improvement.
I can tell you that if you took the same amount of money RETAIL for the Burmester or Bose and purchased Aftermarket speakers for the same money, the Aftermarket would be significantly better. Bose and Burmester are mass produced, heavily marked up by the manufacturer, then by Porsche, then by the Dealer.. whereas Aftermarket is direct to consumer and discounted online. In addition, the components used in aftermarket speakers are of much higher quality and designed specifically for high end audio, whereas stock systems are low to mid fi.
If you want to get into resale value or the ability to recover the money spent on a factory Burmester over aftermarket then the same should apply to exhausts, Cats, wheels and any aftermarket part that improves on stock, but isnt sold by the dealer. You will need to find a buyer who values these items or is willing to pay to have them, otherwise you pull the AM parts to re-install in another car or sell privately and lose about 50%.
There is NO ONE who will tell you that Burmester or Bose sounds BETTER than ANY aftermarket system. The only arguments are cost, resale and potential risk to damage during installation.
If you just insulated the doors with factory speakers you would get an improvement.
I can tell you that if you took the same amount of money RETAIL for the Burmester or Bose and purchased Aftermarket speakers for the same money, the Aftermarket would be significantly better. Bose and Burmester are mass produced, heavily marked up by the manufacturer, then by Porsche, then by the Dealer.. whereas Aftermarket is direct to consumer and discounted online. In addition, the components used in aftermarket speakers are of much higher quality and designed specifically for high end audio, whereas stock systems are low to mid fi.
If you want to get into resale value or the ability to recover the money spent on a factory Burmester over aftermarket then the same should apply to exhausts, Cats, wheels and any aftermarket part that improves on stock, but isnt sold by the dealer. You will need to find a buyer who values these items or is willing to pay to have them, otherwise you pull the AM parts to re-install in another car or sell privately and lose about 50%.
There is NO ONE who will tell you that Burmester or Bose sounds BETTER than ANY aftermarket system. The only arguments are cost, resale and potential risk to damage during installation.
09-28-2018, 11:50 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
I own a High End audio store (Upscale Audio) and we're one of the biggest Focal dealers in the nation (home .. we don't do car). The folks from the factory want to get me the hookup on doing my GTS Cabriolet at their best Los Angeles dealer.
I may take them up on it but while I investigate the merits I decided to fix it for $1. I usually play music through an unused Iphone that I leave in the glove box and I installed an app called EQU. It transformed the HORRIBLE Bose system into something that sounds pretty good. In the Porsche menu I turn the bass up to +6, then use heavy equalization by not increasing mid-bass in the app but HEAVY EQ at the lowest frequencies. I also worked on the mid-band lacking "body" and the raggedy top-end.
The app allows you to add EQ points by just touching a point, then you can actually DRAW the curve and drag it while listening. Amazing.
I may take them up on it but while I investigate the merits I decided to fix it for $1. I usually play music through an unused Iphone that I leave in the glove box and I installed an app called EQU. It transformed the HORRIBLE Bose system into something that sounds pretty good. In the Porsche menu I turn the bass up to +6, then use heavy equalization by not increasing mid-bass in the app but HEAVY EQ at the lowest frequencies. I also worked on the mid-band lacking "body" and the raggedy top-end.
The app allows you to add EQ points by just touching a point, then you can actually DRAW the curve and drag it while listening. Amazing.
09-28-2018, 01:24 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
I own a High End audio store (Upscale Audio) and we're one of the biggest Focal dealers in the nation (home .. we don't do car). The folks from the factory want to get me the hookup on doing my GTS Cabriolet at their best Los Angeles dealer.
I may take them up on it but while I investigate the merits I decided to fix it for $1. I usually play music through an unused Iphone that I leave in the glove box and I installed an app called EQU. It transformed the HORRIBLE Bose system into something that sounds pretty good. In the Porsche menu I turn the bass up to +6, then use heavy equalization by not increasing mid-bass in the app but HEAVY EQ at the lowest frequencies. I also worked on the mid-band lacking "body" and the raggedy top-end.
The app allows you to add EQ points by just touching a point, then you can actually DRAW the curve and drag it while listening. Amazing.
I may take them up on it but while I investigate the merits I decided to fix it for $1. I usually play music through an unused Iphone that I leave in the glove box and I installed an app called EQU. It transformed the HORRIBLE Bose system into something that sounds pretty good. In the Porsche menu I turn the bass up to +6, then use heavy equalization by not increasing mid-bass in the app but HEAVY EQ at the lowest frequencies. I also worked on the mid-band lacking "body" and the raggedy top-end.
The app allows you to add EQ points by just touching a point, then you can actually DRAW the curve and drag it while listening. Amazing.
09-28-2018, 05:44 PM
#103
I listened to the Bose in a 991.2 and it sounded fine. I won't go into the aftermarket for stereo again. I did that for cars in the '70s because the stereos back then were indeed trash but modern cars are much improved.
I have the base stereo in my Merc ML and it sounds fine as well (to me).
I selected the Bose option and it will be left alone after delivery.
Make your individual choice, if you're happy, that's all that counts.
I have the base stereo in my Merc ML and it sounds fine as well (to me).
I selected the Bose option and it will be left alone after delivery.
Make your individual choice, if you're happy, that's all that counts.
Last edited by BSO; 09-29-2018 at 05:36 PM.
