Drive in the Carrera T
08-30-2018, 01:49 PM
#31
The combination of the wide vs. narrow body and wheel design/size makes a huge difference in terms of looks between these two cars. Even the GT3T looks very aggressive, while the T looks meh, particularly the front and rear fascia.
08-30-2018, 01:55 PM
#32
Instructor
My guess is there will be a Touring version of all the models sooner or later; in addition to Carrera T & GT3 T, Porsche will probably want to cash in on Carrera S T, GTS T, Targa T, Turbo T, Turbo S T... watch for the moniker to appear on Macans, Cayennes, Panameras, etc. 😂
08-30-2018, 02:01 PM
#33
not because is a more enjoyable car, especially for street use.
08-30-2018, 02:05 PM
#34
Originally Posted by rodsky
Yeah i was going to but a GT2RS until i found out it had turbos
SMH and rolling my eyes
SMH and rolling my eyes
08-30-2018, 02:22 PM
#35
Racer
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I think the flaws in the Carrera T become more evident when you compare it to a Carrera GT or even a 917K. The Carrera T simply doesn't have the raw power of the CGT, the 917K, or any RSR from the last several years. From a dead stop, when you launch an RSR you REALLY FEEL THE PULL and the exhaust note is spectacular. By comparison, when you "launch" a Carrera T, you're not any quicker than Fred Flinstone picking up his stone car and running with it.
I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.
I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.
Last edited by ChicagoWhale; 08-30-2018 at 02:40 PM.
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08-30-2018, 02:22 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
^ LOL. Yeah, I was going to buy an F40 until I found out it had turbos.
Right up there with: Yeah, I was going to buy a CGT until I found out the tops came off.
Fully agreed. Should have mentioned that I have grown to hate PSE, particularly in the non-GT products. Miss the days when Porsches were tuned for the enjoyment of the driver rather than everyone else. Wish PSE was an option on the T rather than standard, and someone would get around to making an exhaust for the T (if possible) that mimics Sharkwerks stuff for GT3s...you can go from quiet enough to not annoy others around town to GT3 Cup music by learning how to play the instrument. Not sure it can be done, but the turbo 3.4 in my avatar sounded like a 3.0-liter RSR—and as good as any GT3. In the meantime, I'd rather have a 911 "too quiet" than fakery and theatrics.
You get greater agility (feels like a shorter wheelbase, better/sharper turn-in) with greater stability (particularly on corner entry at speed, particularly when trail braking your way in; also in emergency maneuvers)—two attributes that are usually in conflict. It's "transparent" technology, much like PTV—a credit to the engineers involved. We ended up split on the test for 000, with Alex preferring RWS in the T for its advantages and me almost buying in but ultimately deciding I'd go without RWS on a T—not because I don't recognize its advantages but because I am increasingly tired of cars that do everything better by having a computer interpret what I want (no matter how good those calibrations may be). E-thottle? Fine. Safety nets? Fine, also so long as they don't get in the way. PTV, RWS, etc? They work really well in heavier, more powerful product (Turbos, Panas, Macans, etc), but I'll take my simple Porsches as simple as I can get them. I'm split on their use in the GT3, but one can't argue with the performance advantages.
A desire for mechanical simplicity may be one reason why I am not sure I prefer the Carrera T with its standard PTV and LSD over the base Carrera with its open diff and no PTV. Had an interesting discussion with Bernd Kahnau, an engineer now retired called "The 911 Maker" (responsible for the 993 through 991) about a hardcore company car he built for himself in the 1980s, light weighting everything but leaving an open diff in. Said it made a 911 with plenty of rear grip nicer/easier to drive on the road. That has had me thinking ever since, and it's very rare that I run out of traction out back in my "mere Carrera."
I'll leave your first point for someone else to answer who has a Carrera/T and a GT3, but 10,000 miles and nearly a year in, my appreciation for the 991.2 Carrera has only grown. In terms of sheer driving fun, it's better than all but 10-20~ of the modern Porsches I've tested and is easily the best Porsche I've owned—one I find more enjoyable more of the time than my GT4. Would I take it over a 991.2 GT3 6MT with rear seats somehow added (I need them)? Maybe not, and maybe that proves your point. But I'd actually have to think about it, because the Carrera is an easier thing to live with. It isn't just the driving part. It's also the parking and messaging part. I never think twice about where I go in it, which is something I couldn't say with the GT4. Seventh gear also opens up another dimension—making runs down to LA far more relaxing. The two are very different cars...by design. Fun car? GT3 6MT or GT3 Touring, please. Daily? Hmm....
Right up there with: Yeah, I was going to buy a CGT until I found out the tops came off.
I owned a 2018 Carrera T and then traded up to a 991 GT3. The T is torquey, has a fun vibe to it, is a competent daily driver, and the manual is very nice. I though the sound was somewhat artificial with the sport exhaust button pressed. Always exactly three pops when decelerating. The GT3 is an altogether different beast. In the upper limits it behaves in ways the T could not follow. The sound of the GT3 is real and frankly a very torelable daily driver. The Carrera T is a drama queen. The GT3 is real drama.
However, if given a choice between a base Carrera, and S or a T, I would definitely go with the T.
However, if given a choice between a base Carrera, and S or a T, I would definitely go with the T.
A desire for mechanical simplicity may be one reason why I am not sure I prefer the Carrera T with its standard PTV and LSD over the base Carrera with its open diff and no PTV. Had an interesting discussion with Bernd Kahnau, an engineer now retired called "The 911 Maker" (responsible for the 993 through 991) about a hardcore company car he built for himself in the 1980s, light weighting everything but leaving an open diff in. Said it made a 911 with plenty of rear grip nicer/easier to drive on the road. That has had me thinking ever since, and it's very rare that I run out of traction out back in my "mere Carrera."
The T isn't a car that you get to supplement your GT3 as a daily driver, it's another toy that you buy - probably because you don't have a GT3. ...only you get bored with this toy a couple of days after Christmas and then don't bother to ask your parents to buy you some new batteries.
Last edited by stout; 08-30-2018 at 03:02 PM.
08-30-2018, 02:26 PM
#37
08-30-2018, 02:34 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
08-30-2018, 02:38 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I'm glad they did it. I have an RS America and in some ways I feel like it's in the spirit of that and other cars Porsche has built as a driver's car without having to be at the limit to enjoy it. A friend of mine is really excited about it and it'll be his first Porsche. Otherwise he was looking at a Corvette. I'm all for supporting the brand, hyped performance or not. Plus I think the car looks great.
08-30-2018, 03:11 PM
#41
I think the flaws in the Carrera T become more evident when you compare it to a Carrera GT or even a 917K. The Carrera T simply doesn't have the raw power of the CGT, the 917K, or any RSR from the last several years. From a dead stop, when you launch an RSR you REALLY FEEL THE PULL and the exhaust note is spectacular. By comparison, when you "launch" a Carrera T, you're not any quicker than Fred Flinstone picking up his stone car and running with it.
I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.
I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.
08-30-2018, 03:13 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
08-30-2018, 03:14 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
You get greater agility (feels like a shorter wheelbase, better/sharper turn-in) with greater stability (particularly on corner entry at speed, particularly when trail braking your way in; also in emergency maneuvers)—two attributes that are usually in conflict. It's "transparent" technology, much like PTV—a credit to the engineers involved. We ended up split on the test for 000, with Alex preferring RWS in the T for its advantages and me almost buying in but ultimately deciding I'd go without RWS on a T—not because I don't recognize its advantages but because I am increasingly tired of cars that do everything better by having a computer interpret what I want (no matter how good those calibrations may be). E-thottle? Fine. Safety nets? Fine, also so long as they don't get in the way. PTV, RWS, etc? They work really well in heavier, more powerful product (Turbos, Panas, Macans, etc), but I'll take my simple Porsches as simple as I can get them. I'm split on their use in the GT3, but one can't argue with the performance advantages.
A desire for mechanical simplicity may be one reason why I am not sure I prefer the Carrera T with its standard PTV and LSD over the base Carrera with its open diff and no PTV. Had an interesting discussion with Bernd Kahnau, an engineer now retired called "The 911 Maker" (responsible for the 993 through 991) about a hardcore company car he built for himself in the 1980s, light weighting everything but leaving an open diff in. Said it made a 911 with plenty of rear grip nicer/easier to drive on the road. That has had me thinking ever since, and it's very rare that I run out of traction out back in my "mere Carrera."
A desire for mechanical simplicity may be one reason why I am not sure I prefer the Carrera T with its standard PTV and LSD over the base Carrera with its open diff and no PTV. Had an interesting discussion with Bernd Kahnau, an engineer now retired called "The 911 Maker" (responsible for the 993 through 991) about a hardcore company car he built for himself in the 1980s, light weighting everything but leaving an open diff in. Said it made a 911 with plenty of rear grip nicer/easier to drive on the road. That has had me thinking ever since, and it's very rare that I run out of traction out back in my "mere Carrera."
I also ordered a sunroof for the same reasons. This is a fun sporty car with a different purpose than a GT3.
Only silver lining with Sport Exhaust is that in sport plus, the popping is gone but performance and open flaps remain.
08-30-2018, 03:15 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
08-30-2018, 03:17 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
I think the flaws in the Carrera T become more evident when you compare it to a Carrera GT or even a 917K. The Carrera T simply doesn't have the raw power of the CGT, the 917K, or any RSR from the last several years. From a dead stop, when you launch an RSR you REALLY FEEL THE PULL and the exhaust note is spectacular. By comparison, when you "launch" a Carrera T, you're not any quicker than Fred Flinstone picking up his stone car and running with it.
I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.
Last edited by ChicagoWhale; Today at 01:40 PM. I was driving someone else's Carrera T so I totally abused the living hell out of it to the point where it had to be towed back to the owner, and I still couldn't get the emotion that a CGT or RSR evokes. One thing that really wrinkled my test*cles was the lack of a huge rear spoiler like the RSR. Huge wings are everything, and the fact the Carrera T doesn't have it is further proof that Porsche has been taken over by the liberal tree huggers at VW.
I will admit, though, the Bose option in the Carrera T is really nice, and I think this was over-looked when the RSR and 917K was built. And I must say, I was also pleasantly surprised by the steering. Left was left.. Right was right... no issues. But otherwise, outside of the Bose and the steering, the Carrera T just doesn't even feel like real Porsche. Furthermore, I think it perfectly exemplifies the lack of direction and the myriad of engineering flaws which are all too evident in the modern day 911.