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Its all about power-to-weight ratio. That's why all the power is negated with all the options like, sunroof, power seats, hydraulic risers, and all the luxury laden bloating our cars. My 997.2 with 6 speed manual have barely the essentials and I like it just the way it is.
Thanks for the vids! Great stuff!
For those who dont want to watch:
2012 CS - 1:39.3 Winner Best Drivers Car
2013 C4S - 1:39.19 Winner Best Drivers Car
2017 CS - 1:36.44 3rd Place finish (2016 Contest)
2017 Cayman S - 1:40.05 2nd place finish (2017 contest)
Quite a jump in lap times from .1 to .2... Good stuff!
^911 should win every year. It's voter fatigue. I didn't watch the videos because I've seen them a long time ago but I'm sure they gave first place to some hunk of junk American car that's purely designed to look good on paper.
^911 should win every year. It's voter fatigue. I didn't watch the videos because I've seen them a long time ago but I'm sure they gave first place to some hunk of junk American car that's purely designed to look good on paper.
^911 should win every year. It's voter fatigue. I didn't watch the videos because I've seen them a long time ago but I'm sure they gave first place to some hunk of junk American car that's purely designed to look good on paper.
They did not like the 991.2 as much they liked the 991.1. (they felt it lost its soul going turbo - and Porsche Messed with Perfection aka the 991.1) - But still recognized it as an amazing car.
991.2 S lost out to the Shelby GT350R 2nd place and 1st place was Mclaren 570S
I would not call a GT350R a hunk of junk
The 991.2 S also Lost head to head with the Corvette Grandsport C7 - They felt was more fun
Motortrend has a thing against Turbo 911 models.. They found NO fault with the 911 TURBO S but wouldn't give it best driver car this past year because quote, "IT WAS TO EASY TO DRIVE FAST" so it was too good of a car to win lol - They stated the Turbo S was "boring".
^No doubt the C2S lost head to head vs the C7(barely) simply due to the tire the C7 was rocking Michelin Sport Cup 2 vs the crap Pirellis our cars come with. We're talking a street tire vs a track/competition tire. You're also talking about a car that has 40 more hp, nearly 100 more torque and roughly the same weight. I've seen Toyota Tacoma's put down better skid pad numbers than a 350z back in the day. Tires are a cheap way for manufacturers to get better results. There's also a little bias that comes with these car magazines.
I've done plenty of real word/independent testing with C7 vettes. They're junk and built to look good on paper. They'll put down excellent numbers on figure 8 tests and what not but in the real world a C2S is faster in nearly every way. My .2 GTS stock was able to pull away from a C7 Z06 at speeds over 130mph (8 speed auto). The Z06 is clearly geared to be fast from 60-130mph to produce phenomenal lap times and such. We also couldn't get the Z past 192mph where as the GTS reached 196mph. The C6 shames the C7 IMO. Will a C7 still make you smile? Yes. Is it fun? Yes. Is it overrated? Hell yes. You totally get what you pay for... Did I forget to mention the notorious overheating issues? I've experienced that on every single C7 I've run hard.
Look at what happened to this vettes brakes on a canyon/lake run vs a base .2.. They were engulfed in flames, used water to put them out and the caliper seized itself onto the rotor.
Look at what happened to this vettes brakes on a canyon/lake run vs a base .2.. They were engulfed in flames, used water to put them out and the caliper seized itself onto the rotor.
Your Porsche caliper (also a brembo product) would seize itself to the rotor too if you put water on it after a canyon run = HOT rotor / caliper.
I've seen people at the race track seize their rear brakes by setting the parking brake on their sports car after a session.
I think corvettes are great cars and I've driven everything from the C6 Base to the new C7 Z06 . I think everything about the C7 Z06 and potential overheating issues is well known.
And yes in most cases you get what you pay for - except Ferrari's are JUNK - freaken JUNK oh and so are Lamborghini's (except the Hurcan which is changing the rules)
I love the C6 Z06 and think its better than the C7 Z06. (might be slightly bias because I had C6 Z06)
Anyways, for me it is just driving style - I personally just love the rear engine feel of a 911 - this is because I love to trail brake
Back to Thread point
On a race track a Cayman GTS and a 991.2 C4S is a drivers race most likely. based on facts we have seen.
Last edited by snake eyes; 07-20-2018 at 11:13 PM.
Your Porsche caliper (also a brembo product) would seize itself to the rotor too if you put water on it after a canyon run = HOT rotor / caliper.
I've seen people at the race track seize their rear brakes by setting the parking brake on their sports car after a session.
I think corvettes are great cars and I've driven everything from the C6 Base to the new C7 Z06 . I think everything about the C7 Z06 and potential overheating issues is well known.
And yes in most cases you get what you pay for - except Ferrari's are JUNK - freaken JUNK oh and so are Lamborghini's (except the Hurcan which is changing the rules)
We I love the C6 Z06 and think its better than the C7 Z06. (might be slightly bias because I had C6 Z06)
Anyways, for me it is just driving style - I personally just love the rear engine feel of a 911 - this is because I love to trail brake
Back to Thread point
On a race track a Cayman GTS and a 991.2 C4S is a drivers race most likely. based on facts we have seen.
Can't say I disagree.. Cheers to the C6 love. The "truer" platform to me. Oh and the Huracan is simply something else. Want performante so bad.
^911 should win every year. It's voter fatigue. I didn't watch the videos because I've seen them a long time ago but I'm sure they gave first place to some hunk of junk American car that's purely designed to look good on paper.
There are a few American cars that I would call junk but there are many that are not, and they have track times to prove it. I like P Cars, and I look forward to the Targa 4S I have on order, but I am not biased.
Note according to Motortend the 991.1 S is faster than the 718 S around Mazda Raceway (watching best driver car)
I too drove a 718 Cayman loaner and thought it felt way faster - its because of the Torque
Now the 718 GTS will be faster than the 991.1 S for sure around a race track... most likely right with the 991.2 S on Lap TImes.
I don't know if a 718 GTS will surpass 991.1 S times, but certainly close. Both are plenty quick if you ask me.
Originally Posted by HenryPcar
Its all about power-to-weight ratio. That's why all the power is negated with all the options like, sunroof, power seats, hydraulic risers, and all the luxury laden bloating our cars. My 997.2 with 6 speed manual have barely the essentials and I like it just the way it is.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by snake eyes
They did not like the 991.2 as much they liked the 991.1. (they felt it lost its soul going turbo - and Porsche Messed with Perfection aka the 991.1) - But still recognized it as an amazing car.
991.2 S lost out to the Shelby GT350R 2nd place and 1st place was Mclaren 570S
I would not call a GT350R a hunk of junk
The 991.2 S also Lost head to head with the Corvette Grandsport C7 - They felt was more fun
Motortrend has a thing against Turbo 911 models.. They found NO fault with the 911 TURBO S but wouldn't give it best driver car this past year because quote, "IT WAS TO EASY TO DRIVE FAST" so it was too good of a car to win lol - They stated the Turbo S was "boring".
I don't agree with those guys often, but I really "get" them when it comes to 911's and obviously do here. They recognize the 911 is the ultimate performance weapon. It's like its perfection as a tool works against it. So they rate it more according to soulfulness and how it makes them feel. Being that I agree with their preference for the .1 despite the .2's performance advantage, I get where they're coming from. Same as with the 911 Turbo. One of them said "it feels like a shrunken Cayenne that goes faster" which is exactly what I said after driving some F/I 911's (reminded me of a sized down, faster version of my Macan).
Yesterday I was pulling away from a stop sign at normal speeds and an ugly white tesla minivan zoomed up behind me, clearly trying to show off it’s accelerating prowess.
There’s a long sweeping turn right after and since I don’t believe in street racing I stayed within a few mph of the speed limit but the minivan still rapidly receded in the rearview.
Like it or not, sports cars in general have ceded 0-60 to electric minvans and those stupid dodge sedans with the tiny windows. If 0-60 matters to you, you don’t buy a sports car anymore. That’s just a fact and you’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
Sports cars have never been about 0-60. A classic sports car should be "quick" but also nimble with good brakes and balanced handling, especially in transitions. Super cars grew out of sports and GT cars, and staked their claim to fame on both top speed and acceleration.
Its all about power-to-weight ratio. That's why all the power is negated with all the options like, sunroof, power seats, hydraulic risers, and all the luxury laden bloating our cars. My 997.2 with 6 speed manual have barely the essentials and I like it just the way it is.
Well, its all about gearing, too. Take a (slightly) heavier car with less HP/torque and give it lower (numerically higher) gear ratios and it will beat the lighter "stronger" car, at least until it starts to top out.
The 991 C2 has a final drive ratio of 3.44, and tops out above 160 mph. Change that drive ratio to 5.00 and the top speed will drop, as will the 0-60 time (even if you have to shift like crazy).
07-20-2018, 01:24 PM
