K-A

In seriousness, it’s about power curve.

I drove a .2 and had a 718 S for a week. Both had so much torque it was immense fun for the first few days. The sound of the 718 made it redundant and a little tiresome after a while. The sound of the .2 didn’t inspire, entice or rivet me.

Now, the 718 S is so well balanced and torque so abundant that you can be a crappy driver and it makes you feel “Level 10” immediately. But not much challenge or reward. Just consistent, brute power, flawless balance and fun. The .2 being a 911 is more challenging inherently, but even there, in terms of powertrain and gearing, there just isn’t much to “master.” The .1 I find rewarding for the same reasons Chris Harris and others have said that although the 718 is so much faster than the 981, it sort of loses the plot of what made a Cayman or 911 so legendary to begin with: Character, viscerality, rawness, soul, quirks.

What I like about the .1 is that speed isn’t what matters, and I’m grateful for that as a car that needs speed to matter is a dangerous proposition on public roads. And it’s how most “sports cars” feel these days. I find getting the most out of the .1 more of a challenge, it rewards you, then with that miraculous metallically raw raucous growl, it makes me smile a lot more than a torque shove from a 3.0 turbo with less auditory character does. The sensation of HOW you achieve speed and the ways it tunes you into your car has made the 911 a legend that cars who’ve been dishing out torque eons before Carrera owners finally apparently “discovered” said sensation, could ever dream of achieving.

On top of that, I’ve driven a lot of modern turbo cars. And something always feels similar about them. Like they’re muffled by that turbo in a way that goes past sound. The character is muffled. It’s like I already know that x turbo car feels like y turbo car, just dialed differently in the power meter. Getting back into an N/A car after so long, it feels so unique and exotic to really *feel* the soul and character of a car. Funny as it sounds. Like what’s old is new again. And I like that it’s a classic sensation now. .1’s rising in value which is something unheard of for such a new, volume car while its faster replacement declines in sales imo is a testament to how well and legendarily the market will favor these “last of the N/A cars.” Akin to 993’s. And yes that goes for Carreras as well (just as it has for 993’s).

Next, it’s the throttle response. I still can’t get enough of a predictable and razor sharp throttle. And a powerband that climbs like a chart artform. It’s like a kid would imagine a car to build power. Very fundamental. It just gradually climbs to redline. Very rewarding and fun in mastering it.

Then, did I mention the sound ? Base to GT3. Uncorked, an N/A flat six is the best automotive sound in the world to me. The sound alone makes me feel good about my day. More so than power or torque. And even the Base .1 has PLENTY of power for my environment. Overpowered, in fact. Can’t even max out 2nd gear without getting too fast.

So there it is. That’s about all of it. Why I love the .1. Mind you, I really like the .2. My brain heralds it as one of the best engineered cars in history. My heart and soul, however are enamored by the .1, and even though .1 prices are already approaching .2 used prices in many cases, I would pay more for a .1 (for me there was no question, it HAD to be a .1), as that’s how much emotivity means to me, as well I’m certain it will follow traditions of purity benefiting resale in the 911 world (works every time) and hold far greater value than .2’s (the maket has already spoken in this regard by hoisting .1 prices which is a likely precursor into the future).

I’ve also heard the new ones understeer more, and they’re about 112 lbs heavier. But I know Porsche compensated for that in multitudes of ways.

Again, both great for different reasons. And this is just my story. And yes this will be my only serious post on this thread.

randr

I guess I'm just not interested in the 991.1, it didn't leave a great impression on me.

I'm happy with the 991.2 S X51, its as quick as a 991 GT3 and handles nearly as well and is much more useable.

Time moves on, Porsche sports cars improve - I'm looking forward to seeing how the 992 turns out. I have no doubt it will improve on the 991.2.

K-A

I actually find the 991 Turbo sound to also lack in the "soul/character" department and suffer from that inherent turbo mutedness, relative to a 991.1 Carrera with PSE. Even the GT2 sounds bland and sans rawness or character if you ask me. Those two having 4.0's however, give them a big advantage in displacement (thus difference in sound) from the .2 Carrera motors.

There is a science to this, after all. The 3.4/3.8/4.0's run higher compression, have more displacement, and all make more power out of their natural *engines* (i.e the aspect that actually makes the sound) than the 3.0 does. On top of having less of those key factors to engine/exhaust note and volume; what gives the 3.0 its power advantage is forced induction, which is further regressive in the sense of muffling out even more sound. If you ask me, the differences re: why and how one sounds better is as scientific as why and how one makes more torque.

Even that video, I just don't find impressive. Still sounds like the engine is making fairly nondescript, characterless hot air shouting noises with a vacuum whoosh overpowering it. Even a video of a cat-bypass 991.2 sounded pretty mute and basic if you ask me (considering it was a CAT BYPASS which should sound insane).


Now, if we're gonna talk about other subjects, I think it goes without saying the .2 is better in legions of them. It BETTER be, as Porsche would drop their own ball if they didn't fundamentally improve their own car. ESPECIALLY as they knew very well they'd get blowback re: "character, purity and sound" arguments from loyalists. So they had to make sure it was ON POINT in the driving department. And they sure did. Steering is the weakest link on the .1 IMO, it's good, especially when driving spiritedly, but nothing to write home, and can be fairly numb in day to day low speed driving (my car has PSP which I'm sure contributes). The .2 certainly holds superiority there as well.

randr

Forced induction produces higher compression ratios - thats how torque is generated.

Hence at 19.73PSI (my peak boost, taken from the most recent data log of the X51 S) - the compression ratio is ~ 23.42:1. Thats why these 3l engines are so responsive.

Anyhow, I'd take a current GT2 RS over anything else currently produced by Porsche. It would take great skill to drive it to its potential and thats where the challenge sits for some.

K-A

I understand in technicality, but it tends to work differently in sound. Like “reverse compression” lol. In dummy terms, it’s like taking the natural engine compression then converting it from what was raw, loud engine sound into a blower that muffles said engine sound for the sake of raising its own volume.... which is merely a “vacuum” hiss.

If I have track access I’d take a GT2 as well for the simple fact that it’s essentially the best performing production car in the world and simply having access to attempting to tame that beast is a rewarding task. But for the real world, the GT3 is my ultimate. Gorgeous sound, old school engaging visceral feel and just the last of an era of sound, feel and emotion. Instant classic while the GT2 is the modern hallmark. Different approaches for different tastes, mine just happens to be the former. But I wouldn’t push either off the mattress.

.2PDK

991 Carreras are rising in value?

I thought they were just declining at a slower pace.

R_Rated

Nope - I see higher mileage, lesser cars selling for more than my CPO was 2 years ago. It's not investment grade returns but they are more expensive now than a year ago.

Had nothing to do with people hating them and coveting the new ones I'm sure....

.2PDK

Interesting.

Coming from a 1M I was expecting continued decline in prices for the 991...

R_Rated

I see you;re in Ontario and this could be different than the US. It is an anomaly for sure and I can't think of any other mass produced car that did this so soon. Again - it's a mass produced car so likely it won't last.

K-A

Yes, very much so. I’ve been eyeing the market for over 2 years and prices are at their highest now. It’s widely known by shoppers. There are people who bought .1’s two years ago that are sitting on cars that will have a higher transaction price than what they bought for. Shopping a .1 is a nightmare as asking prices are top dollar and the good ones get snapped up in literally seconds with little to no discounts (ask me how I know, and how many times I found out firsthand ). The HFS thread is full of these stories.

I’ve never seen a car that just got replaced, and that sells in such volume, appreciate the moment its replacement launches. Says a lot about the markets prediction of how it will value the cars in the future.

It’ll start to depreciate again, but imo this is a precursor for eventual price appreciation (after it bottoms out, whenever it does). But at the very least, being the last of a the N/A Carreras will mitigate its depreciation and allow it to hold a higher floor. I’m about as certain about that as I am me losing to a .2 in a drag race. I’m also just as confident/certain that .1’s will surpass .2’s in value once both are several years old (already happening in some cases).

Pure, raw, “last of,” “old school” always fares well for 911’s. Even on a relativity basis. HP or all out performance is rarely if ever the key playing factor.

.2PDK

I'll have to scan the mkt and check it out.

Given that I plan to hold on to this car long term it doesn't really matter but who knows down the road...

Needsdecaf

Yes, I'm very glad I bought my 991.1 last year. Prices are up between $5k and $10k from when I was shopping last year.

Note...I did not buy expecting this. Nor did I buy as an investment of any kind. Just glad that I didn't have to pay more for the same used car. It will go down, eventually, as has been said.

Bud Taylor

Capt_and

I bought my C4S 991.1 with 8k miles a few months ago. A good friend of mine drove it a couple of weeks ago and decided that he had to have one. After looking around online a bit, I noticed that the asking prices have gone up $6k - $10k from when I bought mine. That's if I could even find anything comparable.

.2PDK

I'll have to compare my car with others now and see if this is also happening here in Canada...