enzom

Just as quiet. No drone. Only had the stock exhaust on for 60 miles, so I can't really say what it was like on an hour drive on the turnpike. But I know I can drive this car with the EP for a long highway trip and not get annoyed by the noise, as I often did with my PSE on my C2S. The EP exhaust is perfect for me.

speed21

Understand and agree entirely but Imo I doubt a clip will answer your concerns anyway. I've heard the odd sound clip taken from inside Porsche's with systems that have notorious drone issues and I couldn't hear the drone on the clip so I think a verbal description is better where the inside sound is concerned.

Stock was very good, the best effort I've seen to date, but still a bit too plain for my tastes as well.

Btw do you get any gunshot at all? Any increase to existing resonance levels which the stock had in certain situations? Good to get your feedback.

The EP 100 cel cats certainly produce a lot of spool on the outside but inside with windows up not so. From inside it still has the hush... but a good hush. Windows down is different of course but then the sound is much louder too…but in a good way. From what I'm told from those who have heard it on the outside report there is heaps of spool from the turbos.

I think if you are not looking at a full system agree it would be hard going past SW's pipe. The service there and general advice is excellent which can't be said for certain others (won't name names iykwim )

Look forward to it along with any other feedback you can provide on resonance increases inside etc.

Can't wait to near it. The GMG looks quality and really made in USA too..

JJ Cleghorne

I've been told by a local dealer rep that an AM exhaust doesn't wreck the whole warranty, it only affects part of it. He didn't go into much detail, however. Same is true for lowering the car.

TT Surgeon

I don't think that's accurate, at least in the US, pcna will void the warranty with an exhaust, unfortunately.

GrandLaker

I always thought the consumer was protected by the Moss Magnuson act to prevent companies from voiding warranties in these type cases unless manufacture can prove an after market product causes damage?

speed21

Agree. Innocent until proven guilty. But I would fairly concede there are obvious limits to that rule (refer to youtube below).

Having dealer support also matters imo. Installing any AM system which clearly sits outside of the OEM's design principles would automatically raise eyebrows and concerns. i.e cats which are not shielded, cat-less systems and/or systems/components creating nasty gunshot etc.

Put something like this on and imagine Porsche warranty welcoming you with open arms. There would be a finger pointing you directly to the door.

NVRANUF

As with all grey area policies such as AM exhausts, "good dealers" will apply common sense when warranty issues arise...
I've never had warranty denied by my dealer because I had installed AM exhaust parts on my last 2 in-warranty Pcars.

TT Surgeon

Gunner, they've actively clamped down on any modification since the vw takeover. If in doubt just ask your service manager, but be sure he clears it with pcna, who writes the checks. They are a lot less flexible with the new 991 line for whatever reason.

sharkster

hey chris you have a point I mean they're getting more complex and also the dealers are having to get less friendly with mods and stuff. In a way this is what prompted us to do the set up we did on the 997.2 Turbo and now 991 Turbo. Since it bolts to the original cats/emission equipment our set up caters more to the wary/concerned and dealerships that have been ok with it.

speed21

As you say, common sense generally prevails at one point. A manufacturer's warranty can not exclude or deny a customer's statutory or legal rights, and where it can be conclusively proven the component has had no involvement in the problem, warranty has to be acknowledged at one point.

Now on the other hand, when an AM product clearly has the potential to create warranty related issues (such as that system shown in the clip with all that nasty gunshot going on) or, has had an obvious involvement in an engine component failure, then it would be a very hard case for any end user to contest. Can you just imagine bringing in your TTS with a blown turbo, damaged Turbo seal or compressor wheel, burned or damaged valves etc with an exhaust fitted like that one shown on the you tube clip? You would be laughed out of the place.....and rightfully so.

As Alex points out these cars are becoming increasingly more complex and reliant upon the ancillary equipment to be functioning in accordance with the manufacturers requirements. Any exhaust system or pipe that creates nasty gunshot or, uses a cat converter (regardless of brand) which clearly sits outside of the OEM's core design principles has the potential to create engine complications. And then it becomes the end users problem to prove when things inevitably go wrong.

Agree totally Alex and do you blame them? I mean when you read the hyped up marketing crap surrounding some of the junk getting bolted onto these cars you have to seriously question the logic behind these initiatives especially when you look at the restrictive X junction box components some (don't need to name names) are using in a bid to lower production costs and max out profits. The omission of cat insulation shielding is just another example again.... No wonder so many of these AM cats fail prematurely. One only needs to observe the location of the cats on the engine/car and the high susceptibility to thermal shock related issues alone.

Re your new pipe Alex from what I can see and hear it has no gunshot issues at all and does not interfere with the emission systems in any adverse way. It looks like a nice job as usual. Top quality steel and manufacture, all made in USA... I can't see any dealer being able to get any traction in declining an engine related warranty problem using that.

Maybe time for gunner to get of the fence

enzom

Fair point, but the odds of any quality exhaust causing an engine to grenade have to be about as small as my odds of winning Powerball. And when your dealer sells and installs AM exhausts without any admonition concerning voiding your factory warranty, PCNA would have quite a fight on their hands. The Moss Magnusen Act must mean something. I am not worried. To each his own.

sharkster

Nod on all of this and I should say that any dealership locally that's seen and installed an EP has always been impressed and happy to do it. The Techs always give it a thumbs up and even though I haven't sold EP in a few years the many I sold in 2004-2008 have never had any CELs or issues so that also gives dealers confidence. We still support those cars in terms of mods/maintenance once they've switched hands and whatnot. There are plenty of turbos with exhausts with inferior cats that have failed that are the same age as the EP which gets irritating for people and dealerships so I can see why they don't always want to be "ok" with modifications these days.

Gun shot sounds... Hadn't seen/heard anything quite like that. I must be getting old I guess that might work for some people? I'd imagine around Washington it wouldn't be very funny tho!

Cuda911

Wish I'd seen the Sharkwerks product before I bought my system from one of your competitors (FS). I can't even get basic warranty service from them.

Bob Rouleau

Just a word about the "gunshot"comments. Some people actually want an exhaust system which is as loud (nearly) as a race car. It makes sense for manufacturers to cater to those who want one. Probably the same people who ride very loud Harleys

From what I have seen up here and documented on Rennlist threads in the past, PCNA has denied warranty for cars with aftermarket exhausts. I recall a thread about a failed engine denied warranty coverage because of an aftermarket exhaust. On GT3's with leaky rear main seals, owners have been denied coverage because of aftermarket exhaust systems - also posted on Rennlist.

Dealers may be happy to install, on the other hand repairs over a certain amount require the approval of the PCNA tech rep who is NOT sympathetic to non OEM parts.

As to the legality, fighting PCNA in court is too costly for most to contemplate.

Regards,

speed21

Hi Bob,

I don't believe there is such thing as a hard and fast rule for everything these days as the legal system is very much skewed in favor of protecting the client. And whilst you say there are costs which can be prohibitive for some, a good diagnostic engineers report able to support the clients position would provide a stage for PCNA to respond further. Preferably no one wants to go down the road of litigation but it is available for those that are able to provide (scientific) supportive facts that the AM product was not related to the failure in any way.

In so far as the GT3 instances you have referenced, which you say were posted on Rennlist, are you able to provide links? I would be curious to see what the circumstances were and the types of systems involved. As a general rule there are reasons for everything and I am sure if the claims were declined there would be valid reasons.

Re the gunshot comments made. Let's just say we all have our opinions on those and how acceptable they on a marque of this standard/value and level of engineering.