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I've yet to meet and talk to in person, not on a forum, someone who bought an R that thought it was worth a penny more than MSRP.
Every single one of them sold their cars.
Now don't get me wrong, they all said it's a great car and they really enjoyed it, but also realized the massive hype and cashed in big time.
Some of these guys have more than enough money to hang on to the car if they loved it that much...they all sold them.
Plus there's a ton of them for sale...you can't seem to walk in to a Porsche dealer without at least one to 4 of them there sitting for sale.
I have/had no interest in the 911R because for me it does not look Special nor has a wingey. But -no one can discount that it is one of the best inconspicuous driver's car released in the last 5 years. But - for some one who are looking for what I just mentioned- I can see $20,000 - $40,000 over MSRP for the enthusiast.
But for some of the insane prices some paid I think they already know they called it wrong. There was a reason a bunch of R Owners were calling PAG bitching about the .2GT3. But remember - Porsche did not tell these people that this car would appreciate or they would protect Ownership
But remember - Porsche did not tell these people that this car would appreciate or they would protect Ownership
Exactly. Porsche offered a great car for a reasonable price. There was no promise whatsoever that a similar car wouldn't be made again, and they even hinted that the demand for the R was encouragement for AP's group to produce more 'driver's cars' intended mainly for the road rather than the track.
Some people started rationalizing overpaying based on speculation, and now they'll get burned after the bubble bursts. This is a textbook bubble. Amazing how so many people can only see bubbles in retrospect, despite all the warning signs screaming at them. I need to figure out a way to short this car ...
Imagine the values on the R if Porsche went through with their original plan to offer the new GT3 sans wing...they acquiesced to the R owners and dealers this time...will they next time around??
The world will be a better place when the 918 VIP program ends. Even dealers will quietly admit it. They see what it's done, and are over it. They should be, since they are the ones who created the monster.
STG you should go do some work for Comedy Central. I enjoy checking in on this thread to see your posts and I totally agree with post #256. It is always the great debate ender when the advisory has nothing fact based left to say, they revert to "oh you must be jealous".
The world will be a better place when the 918 VIP program ends. Even dealers will quietly admit it. They see what it's done, and are over it. They should be, since they are the ones who created the monster.
Well the dealers that are not actually part of the VIP program will be happy. The ones that bought the 918 and are in it, love it. They are making more money than they know what to do with.
Not sure if this question has been asked/answered, but where are they trading now? I see a metric ton for sale and haven't heard of a single transaction*. Last one to sell publicly was is June @ $380k. That car had all of the right boxes checked and traded in Italy at auction, where we tend to see a 10-15% Porsche premium.
Does that mean these cars are at $330-350k??? I think less.
I understand and appreciate the vitriol here, but I'm in for one of these in an off color at $270k. Would much rather own the R than a similarly spec'ed .2 GT3 even at a $50k premium. It's a cool car that filled a much needed void for Porsche at the time. There will always be newer and better versions.
*dealers, spare me the "many have traded privately at staggering price tags". Bull****. Let's see the comps on these cars; I am genuinely curious where the real, transactional market it
Well the dealers that are not actually part of the VIP program will be happy. The ones that bought the 918 and are in it, love it. They are making more money than they know what to do with.
Very true. I applaud the 918 owners, they are maximizing the opportunity they were offered, I expect no less. I'm just saying that some of the unintended consequences of this 10 year plan dreamed up by Porsche, are partly to blame for threads like this, and inflated flipper prices. It's damaged a lot of relationships with their wider customer base.
I think you see a lot of dealers putting .2 GT3's in the hands of people they know will own them, and drive them.....Porsche has multiple mea-culpas going on right now.
STG you should go do some work for Comedy Central. I enjoy checking in on this thread to see your posts and I totally agree with post #256. It is always the great debate ender when the advisory has nothing fact based left to say, they revert to "oh you must be jealous".
Best thread ever, I'm dying laughing at all the comments. STG, dude, you made water come out of my nose on a couple of your comments(I will remember not to drink anything while reading in the future). Great stuff.
Thanks
Some ideas just pop in my head and go with it. Time consuming with the photo stuff, but worth it if someone enjoys it.
I understand and appreciate the vitriol here, but I'm in for one of these in an off color at $270k. Would much rather own the R than a similarly spec'ed .2 GT3 even at a $50k premium. It's a cool car that filled a much needed void for Porsche at the time. There will always be newer and better versions.
GTFO here, nobody could ever prefer the R over a GT3 or RS! Are you insane?! I mean, wing. Don't you get it?!
Seriously, the funny thing about this thread is that, everybody, save for maybe the OP, agrees that the R's currently for sale are ridiculously overpriced. The debate is whether it's worth any premium over sticker or whether it's basically a C2S with more HP. I'm with you, though not quite as high. The R is probably the only car I'd pay a premium over sticker for, but it would still be pretty small, $20-25k max, assuming it was my perfect spec. But I don't think it's going to trade in that range for a long, long time, assuming we're not in WW III shortly, which looks more likely by the day.
The real bubble issue here is that original owners got bought out of their allocations for $xxx,xxx.oo and those guys have flipped them again.
Or dealers are in on it, and split the proceeds 50/50 with the R owners who never took the car home. Was put away just long enough to run out the time clock on the penalty.
You see it with the OP here. Selling 991.2 allocations for $30K. They pay some dealer who wants to be discreet $15K for the allocation and flip it for $30K.
Look how many RS's are out there. Almost as many as all pre-owned 991.1 GT3's. These flippers are into these cars deep and will get burned soon.
The guys willing to pay crazy prices for these cars want the latest and greatest and move on quickly. The 991.1 RS and R are old news to them already. That market is drying up.
The "gotta have the latest hot car guys" pay big mark ups, not the enthusiasts. The thing is, the latest hot car becomes old very quickly.
It's all entertaining to watch from the sidelines from NO vested interest. The other bias's are very evident.
The R feels very different to a GT3 or GT3 RS. The steering is much lighter, and thanks to a programme for the active rear-wheel steering, it feels faster, too. It’s super alert and almost nervous at first, while the ride is also more supple and the sense of locked-down invincibility is gone. Instead, the 911 R flows and bobs over the surface, with more of an old-school 911 vibe to it. You feel the peculiar weight distribution more keenly.
07-07-2017, 04:46 PM
