McLaren Success
#571
Not sure what to say.. but I have 4k miles on my LT.. both track and normal driving. No problems so far. Again, only my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.
#572
I almost jumped to the Mclaren side. But Porsche managed to keep me in the flock with the 991.2 GT3.
Major reason is that Porsche is my known quantity for trackdays. I have a whole network of dealers, non official yet extremely knowledgeable specialists, track friends, regular gearhead friends all connected to the Porsche brand at my disposal that make it easy to support my car.
If Mclaren ups the ante there, on available dealers, on support in the broadest sense outside the official dealer network like aftermarket parts for trackdays, like a knowledgeable Mclaren "community" and so on, it will be very very hard to resist Mclaren again next time ...
Major reason is that Porsche is my known quantity for trackdays. I have a whole network of dealers, non official yet extremely knowledgeable specialists, track friends, regular gearhead friends all connected to the Porsche brand at my disposal that make it easy to support my car.
If Mclaren ups the ante there, on available dealers, on support in the broadest sense outside the official dealer network like aftermarket parts for trackdays, like a knowledgeable Mclaren "community" and so on, it will be very very hard to resist Mclaren again next time ...
In terms of aftermarket parts for track days - given the sheer ability of the cars, I think if you're gonna want to go faster... you should just get a dedicated track car.
Finally, it may vary with dealers, but my McLaren dealer will transport my car from their shop after track inspection to the track free of charge (I can leave there as I have garage space at the track).
#573
Rennlist Member
I don't think Ferrari has to worry about McLaren eating into their customer base, if anything, Ferrari owners who want a track experience might buy a McLaren as a 27th car for track use and save their 488 for street duty. Porsche has more to lose imo amongst serious track rats with real world budgets. There are a lot of guys on the site (and probably in this thread) with one toy car (P GT) that will start defecting to McLaren for purely economical reasons. More capability, same or similar money, and a smoother buying experience with more options will make it an easy decision for many.
On the other hand, Mclaren will not appeal to track rats who prefer manuals or a NA engine, and Mclaren brakes, while better than they used to be, are still not as predictable or as easily modulated for track work, as Porsche brakes.
This could all be true, particularly from a track perspective, but the Ferrari is a work of art compared to the McLaren in styling terms, and, apparently, a fantastic road car with more performance than anyone could use on the street. Unless I was a track rat, I'd take the 488 GTB over the 570S all day, aluminum chassis and all.
All modern Mclarens and Ferraris have more performance than anyone can use on a public road. If I was looking for a 3rd or 5th car and was choosing between a Mclaren or Ferrari, it would come down to my track needs.
Basically, if only going to the track 1-2 times a year or less, I would get a Ferrari as it looks better and will hold its value better. However, if I wanted to track the car regularly, I would choose a McLaren all day over a Ferrari.
Last edited by Drifting; 03-25-2017 at 12:25 AM.
#574
Race Director
Ferrari has very much to worry about McLaren. They are direct competitors.
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
#575
Yes, one is a drop dead gorgeous sports car borne of decades of design excellence that looks at home on the street and the other looks like the evil spawn of Optimus Prime. I'm far more likely to own a McLaren in the future than a Ferrari, but I can call a spade a spade.
#576
Ferrari has very much to worry about McLaren. They are direct competitors.
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
#577
Rennlist Member
I don't think Porsche has any intention to compete with either of them in any meaningful way. I think they'll continue to just barely overlap at the upper end of Porsche and the lower end of Ferrari/McLaren/Lambo, which is the natural positioning for Porsche. That is until Ferrari starts selling $45,000 4 banger SUVs.
Porsche the most profitable car company in the world. They own the 100K-200K cost bracket, and they make tons of money (much more than Ferrari, Mclaren or Lambo) doing what they've been doing in that cost bracket. They don't need to compete with Ferrari, Mclaren or lambo in the 200-350K bracket.
Porsche will produce a hypercar every decade or so, to show they can build something just as amazing as Ferrari or McLaren, but then go back to making their 911-based cars costing 100-200K, and continue as a company to make much more money than Ferrari or McLaren.
#578
Rennlist Member
The turbo s and 570s are in the same price bracket but the reality is you still can't drive a 570s around town as a daily. A turbo s is still a classic looking car that won't attract all that attention.
Ferrari has very much to worry about McLaren. They are direct competitors.
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
Porsche has to make the decision if they want to make a mid-engine beast to compete in that upper-market. My bet is they have no other choice and they will. And probably knock it out of the park like the did on the 918
Their bigger issue now is McLaren invaiding their 911 Turbo space. That is a big issue with the 570S
#579
I might throw it on the track for a session when the season starts and see how it really performs, but will depend on my track car's reliability.
#580
You can, and McLaren is making a big push so that customers know that you can enjoy a 570S everyday, just like you can enjoy a TTS, but just with a little more flair.
#581
Platinum Dealership
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The 570GT is the one to daily. Awesome car. And you can still drift them around in hoon mode.
570 sounds better than a turbo. Ferrari 458 or 488 does sound better than a 570 but a 675LT stands tall against anyone.
570 sounds better than a turbo. Ferrari 458 or 488 does sound better than a 570 but a 675LT stands tall against anyone.
#582
Rennlist Member
my 570S (with sports exhaust) sounds inside ... how should i say: not raw/loud/etc enough.
But my comparison against 997RS, 991RS, E46/E92M3, high tune 4bangers,... is not fair. I would have to do the comparison with an upcomming 570LT.
chassis wise the feeling is fun with rigid carbon mono + regular anti roll and suspension. (i do have it lowered 15mm with a KW spring kit + 10kg harder springs)
steering is perfect. thx to 100% hydro.
drifting (not powersliding) - tough job - logical: mid engine, turbo, no lsd
the real issue is i do not get emotions out of it - as long driving below 2xx.
the turbo lag: good above 5krpm but i can´t like the boost/torque as much as i like the N/A responsiveness and sound. don´t know if i can be friend with turbos at any time soon. my supercharged Caterhams i like already - a lot!
I never read so often a 2xx or 3xx on the speedo during a normal sunday drive as i do while driving the 570s. incredible. maybe a result of to less emotions as written before... not healthy for the surrounding and the driver license.
but. if turbo for me in 2018: i would like to get a GT2RS. and so another 100k more than the 570s is worth... but. as many in here i would like to transfer the bucks to my dealer - being on my knees.
those damn beetles still own me...
But my comparison against 997RS, 991RS, E46/E92M3, high tune 4bangers,... is not fair. I would have to do the comparison with an upcomming 570LT.
chassis wise the feeling is fun with rigid carbon mono + regular anti roll and suspension. (i do have it lowered 15mm with a KW spring kit + 10kg harder springs)
steering is perfect. thx to 100% hydro.
drifting (not powersliding) - tough job - logical: mid engine, turbo, no lsd
the real issue is i do not get emotions out of it - as long driving below 2xx.
the turbo lag: good above 5krpm but i can´t like the boost/torque as much as i like the N/A responsiveness and sound. don´t know if i can be friend with turbos at any time soon. my supercharged Caterhams i like already - a lot!
I never read so often a 2xx or 3xx on the speedo during a normal sunday drive as i do while driving the 570s. incredible. maybe a result of to less emotions as written before... not healthy for the surrounding and the driver license.
but. if turbo for me in 2018: i would like to get a GT2RS. and so another 100k more than the 570s is worth... but. as many in here i would like to transfer the bucks to my dealer - being on my knees.
those damn beetles still own me...
#583
Originally Posted by Drifting
Agree, and I think this might be one reason Porsche has continued to delay the 960.
Porsche the most profitable car company in the world. They own the 100K-200K cost bracket, and they make tons of money (much more than Ferrari, Mclaren or Lambo) doing what they've been doing in that cost bracket. They don't need to compete with Ferrari, Mclaren or lambo in the 200-350K bracket.
Porsche will produce a hypercar every decade or so, to show they can build something just as amazing as Ferrari or McLaren, but then go back to making their 911-based cars costing 100-200K, and continue as a company to make much more money than Ferrari or McLaren.
Porsche the most profitable car company in the world. They own the 100K-200K cost bracket, and they make tons of money (much more than Ferrari, Mclaren or Lambo) doing what they've been doing in that cost bracket. They don't need to compete with Ferrari, Mclaren or lambo in the 200-350K bracket.
Porsche will produce a hypercar every decade or so, to show they can build something just as amazing as Ferrari or McLaren, but then go back to making their 911-based cars costing 100-200K, and continue as a company to make much more money than Ferrari or McLaren.
So true, but hey if they can bump it up a bit and still compete why not. Same as bumping down with the lowly Macao 4 cyl lol
I would love to see the 960 come to fruition. Even a two door panamera like coupe might catch my eye
#584
TTS is still a $200K car. Anybody who can afford a $200K car for a daily driver most likely has a fairly cushy daily drive.
#585
Drifting
Agree, most people tracking or daily driving cars above the $125K or more car can afford more car etc... I prefer car companies focused on performance and reliability so for me it is 1. Porsche, never see these broken down at track truly plug play right off show room and 2. Mclaren from what I see at the track and not being dismantled all the time. I will definitely buy a 570LT if they make it to go with my .2 GT3 so I have a little of each to thirsty my quench.