991.2 GTS, GT3, GT2, GT3 RS, Mission E - Update
01-15-2017, 06:16 PM
#571
Nordschleife Master
If Porsche decides to go with a carbon tub in the future on some of their GT cars, how much does this generally add to the manufacturing cost? Needless to say they need to make the initial investment and changes to accomplish this.
01-15-2017, 06:19 PM
#572
Race Car
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Looks like AMG knows that very well...
01-15-2017, 06:22 PM
#573
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I also agree with Trakcar to an extent that PAG's primary focus of concern is maximizing profits and selling cars however I think they do have their eye on making sure that the GT RS's they sell too immediately preceding customers maintain a certain specialness and are not totally overshadowed whether in performance and or aesthetic cues by the immediately succeeding non RS GT. If this were the case Porsche RSs would not hold their values as they do. Value retention is part of what makes a Porsche GT car special and RSs very special and I think PAG knows this.
I agree with the idea that Porsche wants to maximize profits, but doing that over the intermediate and long term may require keeping recent customers happy so that they stay with the Porsche brand. As you note, many of us do care about value and value retention in making these purchasing decisions (a main reason I have too many cars at the moment is that they're all holding value well, so it's not costing me too much to hang on to them).
01-15-2017, 06:45 PM
#575
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01-15-2017, 06:50 PM
#576
Burning Brakes
Maybe they don't make a 991.2 GT3 RS, and the upcoming 991.2 GT2 RS is the RS that allows Porsche to keep up with the horsepower competition for the remainder of the 991's production life.
01-15-2017, 06:55 PM
#579
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Is easy to understand that (too many) who paid the RS overMSR BC thinking it s the last NA
"the century deal"
,now smelling a better GT3 and next RS to be also NAs,
is not happy,
but Porsche never said that it was the last NAs
Actually exactly the opposite
of course collectors or track rats are sleeping well
you know who you have to blame...
"the century deal"
,now smelling a better GT3 and next RS to be also NAs,
is not happy,
but Porsche never said that it was the last NAs
Actually exactly the opposite
of course collectors or track rats are sleeping well
you know who you have to blame...
Last edited by fxz; 01-15-2017 at 07:19 PM.
01-15-2017, 07:09 PM
#580
Rennlist Member
Did you mean bringing the old Mezger 4.0L engine back? If yes, why took Porsche so long
? I also don't think 9K engines belong on road cars. Besides, don't think there's any performance benefit of wringing it that high. Make them 8,500 max for reliability's sake. And rather than more and more power, Porsche should focus on lighter weight and keep NA. At the current price point of the RS, only a little more should allow a carbon tub, and stay competitive with 'only' 500 HP.
? I also don't think 9K engines belong on road cars. Besides, don't think there's any performance benefit of wringing it that high. Make them 8,500 max for reliability's sake. And rather than more and more power, Porsche should focus on lighter weight and keep NA. At the current price point of the RS, only a little more should allow a carbon tub, and stay competitive with 'only' 500 HP.
01-15-2017, 08:39 PM
#581
Nordschleife Master
There are no more such things as GT3 and GT2 in series racing.
Next Porsche GT cars will be tt or hybrid assist and will be RS and non RS separated by displacement and boost. MHO.
Further, I expect future 911GT cars to be mid engine. I don't thimk the current RSR exercise is for chits and giggles. It a harbinger of what's coming.
Next Porsche GT cars will be tt or hybrid assist and will be RS and non RS separated by displacement and boost. MHO.
Further, I expect future 911GT cars to be mid engine. I don't thimk the current RSR exercise is for chits and giggles. It a harbinger of what's coming.
Last edited by Waxer; 01-15-2017 at 09:26 PM.
01-15-2017, 10:08 PM
#582
01-16-2017, 05:29 AM
#583
And apparently AMG think its ok to go past 10,000rpm on a street car:
http://jalopnik.com/the-mercedes-amg...-to-1787244543
01-16-2017, 05:33 AM
#584
In addition to that, customers who took delivery of an RS within the past year may be less inclined to buy the next RS if their existing RS is so quickly matched in performance by a lowly GT3 with the same engine and costing considerably less.
I agree with the idea that Porsche wants to maximize profits, but doing that over the intermediate and long term may require keeping recent customers happy so that they stay with the Porsche brand. As you note, many of us do care about value and value retention in making these purchasing decisions (a main reason I have too many cars at the moment is that they're all holding value well, so it's not costing me too much to hang on to them).
I agree with the idea that Porsche wants to maximize profits, but doing that over the intermediate and long term may require keeping recent customers happy so that they stay with the Porsche brand. As you note, many of us do care about value and value retention in making these purchasing decisions (a main reason I have too many cars at the moment is that they're all holding value well, so it's not costing me too much to hang on to them).
01-16-2017, 06:16 AM
#585
Marketing ...
Assuming the 991.2 GT3 is 4.0, I'll make some predictions:
- Official power will be 490 hp - a little more than midway between the 3.8 and the RS/R.
- Base MSRP will be $15-20K more than the 991.1 GT3.
- Little or no "discount" for manual instead of PDK.
- It will come with an N1 version of the Cup 2 which has a little more grip than the N0 (hopefully this tire will fit the 991.1 GT3!).
- Damping programming will be better than the 991.1 GT3, making it even more comfortable on the road, and at least as good on the track (if not a little better).
- They will make as many as they can sell, but as usual they'll foster a perception of scarcity and dole them out in little batches.
- Valuations on the RS will return to about MSRP (less if heavily tracked).
- Assuming the GT3 is offered in manual, valuations on the R will drop to the $200-300K range, but not all the way back to MSRP. Deep-pocketed collectors will continue to want the R, others will be happy with the manual 991.2 GT3.
- Valuations on heavily-optioned examples of the 991.1 GT3 will take a hit. Less hit for low-option cars, since the base price of the 991.2 will be significantly higher.
- A brutal GT2 RS will be developed to try to keep up with the challengers from AMG, McLaren, etc. It will be over $200K base MSRP, and you won't see many of them at the track, despite that being the designed use of the car.
Assuming the 991.2 GT3 is 4.0, I'll make some predictions:
- Official power will be 490 hp - a little more than midway between the 3.8 and the RS/R.
- Base MSRP will be $15-20K more than the 991.1 GT3.
- Little or no "discount" for manual instead of PDK.
- It will come with an N1 version of the Cup 2 which has a little more grip than the N0 (hopefully this tire will fit the 991.1 GT3!).
- Damping programming will be better than the 991.1 GT3, making it even more comfortable on the road, and at least as good on the track (if not a little better).
- They will make as many as they can sell, but as usual they'll foster a perception of scarcity and dole them out in little batches.
- Valuations on the RS will return to about MSRP (less if heavily tracked).
- Assuming the GT3 is offered in manual, valuations on the R will drop to the $200-300K range, but not all the way back to MSRP. Deep-pocketed collectors will continue to want the R, others will be happy with the manual 991.2 GT3.
- Valuations on heavily-optioned examples of the 991.1 GT3 will take a hit. Less hit for low-option cars, since the base price of the 991.2 will be significantly higher.
- A brutal GT2 RS will be developed to try to keep up with the challengers from AMG, McLaren, etc. It will be over $200K base MSRP, and you won't see many of them at the track, despite that being the designed use of the car.
495 hp is what i heard but who can feel the difference anyway?
they will try to make as many as demand is able to absorb but there is a certain limit as to how much they can expand production, but for sure they can make as many as they produced 991.1 RS :-), and then some which might still not be enough as the popularity of the GT3 is likely being taken to new highs
i cant really see the R droping much though, the limited edition pull is strong and for prices to drop there first must be enough people trying to sell them, most will be just in garages by rich enough people with no need to sell them - just my guess
991.1 RS will still be faster on the track (aero, tires, a tad lighter, wider track) but non-track RS buyers might feel they can use the still high RS values to get a car (991.2 GT3) which is as fast on the street for 50K USD, EUR less which might put a slight pressure on RS prices but not much as the more agressive look of the RS will still set them apart
i predict a 7-10% price increase but PCM is included free of charge, making the net price increase only 4-7% (that is for Europe pricing, US might be different)