991 GT2RS
#1381
What p!sses me off is that Porsche are well aware of the core technology available, they were using it 20 years ago in the GT2 EVOs. Despite premium pricing for this new model they won't pay for a run of ~$6000 per pair beasties with the specification to support VTG heated 700PS......
#1382
I personally find the water sprayed intercoolers and the hood mounted brake ducts far fetched. Not only are the leaked stories conflicting, the reason why these features would exist is hard to come up with.
Regarding the spray cooled intercoolers;
1. What is it fixing? The NA cars have some power reduction concerns with raised IATs but it doesn't seem to be a serious issue. They didn't address it on the .2 GT3. The Turbo S doesn't seem to have any serious issue that I'm aware of. I don't see many at the track but I assume that is due to reasons other than IATs.
2. Porsche turbo engines haven't had a problem making over 700hp in the past without a water sprayed intercooler. Why do they need it on this one? It also must be a big need if they couldn't avoid it with better ducting or heat shielding.
3. For a RS car meant for all-out track performance, the extra weight of the system and having to re-fill a water tank doesn't sound very Porsche-esque to me. Seems very Hellcat, though. Obviously, Porsche is not interested in playing the horsepower war. They do just fine selling cars with 450-500hp against cars with 650+.
Regarding the hood mounted "brake" ducts;
1. What is it fixing? Has anyone had an issue with their brakes overheating? Porsche didn't address it on the .2 GT3 and it has to slow from greater speeds with less aero drag and more weight than the .1 GT3 RS. Yes, the GT2RS will be faster but we are seeing the same ducts on the .2 GT3RS mule. You'd think the car that needs the extra ducting is the car with less aero drag and more weight.
2. The placement of the ducts doesn't make sense for brake cooling.
3. What happened to the underbody airflow that now requires brake cooling air to come from on top of the hood? Are the GT2RS and GT3RS now lower? Doesn't appear so. Is the splitter lower? Doesn't appear so. Is there a P1/FGT "track mode" suspension lowering option? Doubtful. The tires already rub with a track alignment on the GT3RS. Are there other aero tricks keeping underbody airflow down? Possibly but doubtful especially if running a rear diffuser now and PDK.
3. Maybe the reported Weissach package plays a part in the ducts? What could be removed for a significant weight reduction that the Weissach package typically entails? A/C?
So, basically I'm skeptical of any info coming out for the GT2RS other than; lighter, more powerful, more of the same Porsche we know and love. They aren't having trouble selling their cars. Deviating from the formula with gimmicks and added complexity is not in the Porsche DNA.
Regarding the spray cooled intercoolers;
1. What is it fixing? The NA cars have some power reduction concerns with raised IATs but it doesn't seem to be a serious issue. They didn't address it on the .2 GT3. The Turbo S doesn't seem to have any serious issue that I'm aware of. I don't see many at the track but I assume that is due to reasons other than IATs.
2. Porsche turbo engines haven't had a problem making over 700hp in the past without a water sprayed intercooler. Why do they need it on this one? It also must be a big need if they couldn't avoid it with better ducting or heat shielding.
3. For a RS car meant for all-out track performance, the extra weight of the system and having to re-fill a water tank doesn't sound very Porsche-esque to me. Seems very Hellcat, though. Obviously, Porsche is not interested in playing the horsepower war. They do just fine selling cars with 450-500hp against cars with 650+.
Regarding the hood mounted "brake" ducts;
1. What is it fixing? Has anyone had an issue with their brakes overheating? Porsche didn't address it on the .2 GT3 and it has to slow from greater speeds with less aero drag and more weight than the .1 GT3 RS. Yes, the GT2RS will be faster but we are seeing the same ducts on the .2 GT3RS mule. You'd think the car that needs the extra ducting is the car with less aero drag and more weight.
2. The placement of the ducts doesn't make sense for brake cooling.
3. What happened to the underbody airflow that now requires brake cooling air to come from on top of the hood? Are the GT2RS and GT3RS now lower? Doesn't appear so. Is the splitter lower? Doesn't appear so. Is there a P1/FGT "track mode" suspension lowering option? Doubtful. The tires already rub with a track alignment on the GT3RS. Are there other aero tricks keeping underbody airflow down? Possibly but doubtful especially if running a rear diffuser now and PDK.
3. Maybe the reported Weissach package plays a part in the ducts? What could be removed for a significant weight reduction that the Weissach package typically entails? A/C?
So, basically I'm skeptical of any info coming out for the GT2RS other than; lighter, more powerful, more of the same Porsche we know and love. They aren't having trouble selling their cars. Deviating from the formula with gimmicks and added complexity is not in the Porsche DNA.
Last edited by S.White; 06-05-2017 at 06:35 PM.
#1383
If you read my post above, pretty sure we're talking about water injection not intercooler sprayers. Running turbo 700hp continuously on track is not at all like running 500hp with an NA motor. Heat soak is a very real issue with turbo motors - water injection will improve power and endurance at the track (times won't diminish with additional laps as a current turbo modded for big power will do).
Brakes on the GT3 and RS haven't had to deal with 700 hp and 553 ft-lbs - additional cooling will be a big (necessary) help. Big downforce will allow the brakes to work even harder - another reason for more cooling.
Brakes on the GT3 and RS haven't had to deal with 700 hp and 553 ft-lbs - additional cooling will be a big (necessary) help. Big downforce will allow the brakes to work even harder - another reason for more cooling.
#1384
#1385
Seems like a low in Motorsports/RSR connection? Maybe it will be midengined and the 3.8TT used in the RSR next year.
Otherwise it's pretty disappointing to not see the more developed 4.0 being used.
Hopefully the 1000 units is true so I can't get one...
Otherwise it's pretty disappointing to not see the more developed 4.0 being used.
Hopefully the 1000 units is true so I can't get one...
#1386
A water injection system is what the BMW GT4 GTS has (only production car so far, afaik). This puts water inside the engine combustion process (internally) and allows for more boost and cooler running with additional power and torque. Very high tech.
An intercooler sprayer just sprays water (or windshield washer fluid in the case of Subaru) onto the outside of the intercooler to improve its effectiveness and to combat heat soaking. It basically is just a window washer nozzle aimed at the intercooler (in addition to the windshield). Rather low tech...
So far various articles about the GT2RS have mentioned one or the other system (but I bet it's the high tech water injection system, though I suppose it could also have an intercooler sprayer as well).
An intercooler sprayer just sprays water (or windshield washer fluid in the case of Subaru) onto the outside of the intercooler to improve its effectiveness and to combat heat soaking. It basically is just a window washer nozzle aimed at the intercooler (in addition to the windshield). Rather low tech...
So far various articles about the GT2RS have mentioned one or the other system (but I bet it's the high tech water injection system, though I suppose it could also have an intercooler sprayer as well).
#1388
If you read my post above, pretty sure we're talking about water injection not intercooler sprayers. Running turbo 700hp continuously on track is not at all like running 500hp with an NA motor. Heat soak is a very real issue with turbo motors - water injection will improve power and endurance at the track (times won't diminish with additional laps as a current turbo modded for big power will do).
Brakes on the GT3 and RS haven't had to deal with 700 hp and 553 ft-lbs - additional cooling will be a big (necessary) help. Big downforce will allow the brakes to work even harder - another reason for more cooling.
Brakes on the GT3 and RS haven't had to deal with 700 hp and 553 ft-lbs - additional cooling will be a big (necessary) help. Big downforce will allow the brakes to work even harder - another reason for more cooling.
Also, the 991.2 GT3 RS mule has the same hood ducts. Do you think it will have an increase in power so much so that it requires extra brake cooling when we don't see any of those issues on the 991.1 GT3 RS and they weren't introduced on the 991.2 GT3? It's not like Porsche to fix things that aren't broken IMO. If the IAT cooling system exists, I think it's a mistake and an unnecessary complication in the name of a 'Ring lap time and/or peak power figures. Both of which are strange for Porsche to care about all of a sudden. If the hood ducts are truly brake ducts and make it to the production car, I think it's strange and an unnecessary complication that could have been rectified with a proper backing plate and ducting from the already existing inlets.
#1390
Don't see what all the fuss is about. I trust the engineers added it for a reason. If you don't want to deal with adding water then the computer will likely just dial back the boost/power to offset - no harm, no foul.
#1391
Originally Posted by Nizer
Don't see what all the fuss is about. I trust the engineers added it for a reason. If you don't want to deal with adding water then the computer will likely just dial back the boost/power to offset - no harm, no foul.
#1392
How about this for a little story.
I drove my 918 400km to my track for it's grand opening.
3/4 way in, I got a hybrid system failure, with a check engine light on.
Next thing I know, the car wouldn't restart, it refused to get into gear at the gas station.
I tried for 5 mins and it still won't start.
I got out, lock the car, had a cigarette, then unlock the car and start it again, it got into gear an driving was possible.
Just a pure coincidence, my buddy took his P1, trailered to the track, but after 4 laps it went into lip mode. the shifts were done at 5k rpm. On the same day as met car got the error code.
The next day, both cars were on the track, the P1 was still in limp mode, and my car was having the check engine light on for the hybrid system. Both did hot laps, his limp mode was still on, my check engine light for the hybrid system went off after a few laps, it's been off ever since. I drove home 400 kms away after about 30 hot laps, his car was trailered back, underivable.
FYI, he doesn't care if he breaks the car or not, same was I.
I drove my 918 400km to my track for it's grand opening.
3/4 way in, I got a hybrid system failure, with a check engine light on.
Next thing I know, the car wouldn't restart, it refused to get into gear at the gas station.
I tried for 5 mins and it still won't start.
I got out, lock the car, had a cigarette, then unlock the car and start it again, it got into gear an driving was possible.
Just a pure coincidence, my buddy took his P1, trailered to the track, but after 4 laps it went into lip mode. the shifts were done at 5k rpm. On the same day as met car got the error code.
The next day, both cars were on the track, the P1 was still in limp mode, and my car was having the check engine light on for the hybrid system. Both did hot laps, his limp mode was still on, my check engine light for the hybrid system went off after a few laps, it's been off ever since. I drove home 400 kms away after about 30 hot laps, his car was trailered back, underivable.
FYI, he doesn't care if he breaks the car or not, same was I.
The former is easy to quantify, and many time easy to justify. The latter? Not so much.
#1393
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Underivable, and lip mode. Seems like an unintentional mooty-ist comment.
Fwiw I can't wait to take my P1 on track again but will do so with a stack of tires.
Fwiw I can't wait to take my P1 on track again but will do so with a stack of tires.