How to get one?
#107
GT3 player par excellence
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hate to say this, op and other young entrepreneurs are all great. i started my first business at 17 and the primary expense item on my income stmt is "evaporation rate" it's a common line item in many business in many many parts of the world. in english parlance it translates loosely to "bribery". some may not agree, but sometimes and some area of the world it IS business and it IS the ONLY way to conduct business. i think stealers are well versed in this practice. pls note i did not say this is GOOD practice, but hey, if i am stranded in the hamalaya and you are my only food source..... sorry pal....
perhaps in other states, there are "relationship" dealers. in CA, not so much. if you added all your fingers and toes.... that's < then the number of p cars i bought from the carlsen porsche so noted in my signature. they flat out told me, i didn't give them a big enough RED ENVELOPE. so "relationship".... fk that. this country has the HIGHEST divorce rate in the world, and you think dealer (not all but most) give a shi*t about relationship? most dealership principlals are on 2nd 3rd marriage now. relationship....
some words have no meanings, just sound. and RELATIONSHIP with dealers is one such word.
good luck finding one. the RS is a great car.
perhaps in other states, there are "relationship" dealers. in CA, not so much. if you added all your fingers and toes.... that's < then the number of p cars i bought from the carlsen porsche so noted in my signature. they flat out told me, i didn't give them a big enough RED ENVELOPE. so "relationship".... fk that. this country has the HIGHEST divorce rate in the world, and you think dealer (not all but most) give a shi*t about relationship? most dealership principlals are on 2nd 3rd marriage now. relationship....
some words have no meanings, just sound. and RELATIONSHIP with dealers is one such word.
good luck finding one. the RS is a great car.
#108
hate to say this, op and other young entrepreneurs are all great. i started my first business at 17 and the primary expense item on my income stmt is "evaporation rate" it's a common line item in many business in many many parts of the world. in english parlance it translates loosely to "bribery". some may not agree, but sometimes and some area of the world it IS business and it IS the ONLY way to conduct business. i think stealers are well versed in this practice. pls note i did not say this is GOOD practice, but hey, if i am stranded in the hamalaya and you are my only food source..... sorry pal....
perhaps in other states, there are "relationship" dealers. in CA, not so much. if you added all your fingers and toes.... that's < then the number of p cars i bought from the carlsen porsche so noted in my signature. they flat out told me, i didn't give them a big enough RED ENVELOPE. so "relationship".... fk that. this country has the HIGHEST divorce rate in the world, and you think dealer (not all but most) give a shi*t about relationship? most dealership principlals are on 2nd 3rd marriage now. relationship....
some words have no meanings, just sound. and RELATIONSHIP with dealers is one such word.
good luck finding one. the RS is a great car.
perhaps in other states, there are "relationship" dealers. in CA, not so much. if you added all your fingers and toes.... that's < then the number of p cars i bought from the carlsen porsche so noted in my signature. they flat out told me, i didn't give them a big enough RED ENVELOPE. so "relationship".... fk that. this country has the HIGHEST divorce rate in the world, and you think dealer (not all but most) give a shi*t about relationship? most dealership principlals are on 2nd 3rd marriage now. relationship....
some words have no meanings, just sound. and RELATIONSHIP with dealers is one such word.
good luck finding one. the RS is a great car.
Take Brumos Porsche, soon to be Fields Porsche. I bought a 996 in 1999 and another in 2003. I then decided too late to buy a 991 gt3 and they could not get me one. So I bought it elsewhere (@ msrp). I then decided too late to get an RS. For months I would stop by and talk to my SA. And one day they asked me if I'd be interested in an RS that was already spec'd. I believe they offered me the car not because of anything else other than the relationship I had developed with them over the years. Being involved in swap meets, pca car shows there, buying parts for maintenance, and having them service my 997 rs over the years. I've developed a good relationship with no intents. They are genuinely nice people.
I'm confident there were 100 other people with much large checkbooks than I. Im very fortunate and grateful. They also know I'll take the car to the track.
So not all dealers are the same. There are some good ones and Brumos is (was) one of them.
#109
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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You were sleeping last 3 years when RS were
still available
Now what do you pretend??
Re opening production for Mr Baron?
You live on the moon man and i can
understand your dealers hating such
a poser idiot like you
haven t they told you they won t sell you neither
upcoming GT ?
I can see as kind of buyer you' re death
they DON'T need you anymore nor your money
Bye bye
still available
Now what do you pretend??
Re opening production for Mr Baron?
You live on the moon man and i can
understand your dealers hating such
a poser idiot like you
haven t they told you they won t sell you neither
upcoming GT ?
I can see as kind of buyer you' re death
they DON'T need you anymore nor your money
Bye bye
#110
No offense or anything but I think you completely misread OPs original post as he is not trying to get a current gen RS, but he is trying to get on a list for a next gen RS when it is announced
#111
GT3 player par excellence
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Not all dealers need a red envelope. Some do have good principles.
Take Brumos Porsche, soon to be Fields Porsche. I bought a 996 in 1999 and another in 2003. I then decided too late to buy a 991 gt3 and they could not get me one. So I bought it elsewhere (@ msrp). I then decided too late to get an RS. For months I would stop by and talk to my SA. And one day they asked me if I'd be interested in an RS that was already spec'd. I believe they offered me the car not because of anything else other than the relationship I had developed with them over the years. Being involved in swap meets, pca car shows there, buying parts for maintenance, and having them service my 997 rs over the years. I've developed a good relationship with no intents. They are genuinely nice people.
I'm confident there were 100 other people with much large checkbooks than I. Im very fortunate and grateful. They also know I'll take the car to the track.
So not all dealers are the same. There are some good ones and Brumos is (was) one of them.
Take Brumos Porsche, soon to be Fields Porsche. I bought a 996 in 1999 and another in 2003. I then decided too late to buy a 991 gt3 and they could not get me one. So I bought it elsewhere (@ msrp). I then decided too late to get an RS. For months I would stop by and talk to my SA. And one day they asked me if I'd be interested in an RS that was already spec'd. I believe they offered me the car not because of anything else other than the relationship I had developed with them over the years. Being involved in swap meets, pca car shows there, buying parts for maintenance, and having them service my 997 rs over the years. I've developed a good relationship with no intents. They are genuinely nice people.
I'm confident there were 100 other people with much large checkbooks than I. Im very fortunate and grateful. They also know I'll take the car to the track.
So not all dealers are the same. There are some good ones and Brumos is (was) one of them.
especially in ca.
I know everyone of them from WA to San Diego.
#112
And I think the common theme, from those that are actually getting an rs is
build a relationship or
put money in a red envelope.
I don't think you're going to get anywhere by walking into your chosen dealership with your driving shoes and martini racing jacket and convince them that your passion for the brand qualifies you for purchase.
Sorry I didn't stroke your ego...
build a relationship or
put money in a red envelope.
I don't think you're going to get anywhere by walking into your chosen dealership with your driving shoes and martini racing jacket and convince them that your passion for the brand qualifies you for purchase.
Sorry I didn't stroke your ego...
#113
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^ passion and brand loyalty meh
I wrote to PCNA before.
I race wih PCA
I raced in Rennsport
we own p car since 50's in two continents...
..... it's relationship, loyalty, bribery, enthusiasm, luck.....
as op and other entrepreneurs must know. if all u did was work hard and being a genius, u won't get too far in life... most successful ppl in any activities had Lady Luck wih them...
I wrote to PCNA before.
I race wih PCA
I raced in Rennsport
we own p car since 50's in two continents...
..... it's relationship, loyalty, bribery, enthusiasm, luck.....
as op and other entrepreneurs must know. if all u did was work hard and being a genius, u won't get too far in life... most successful ppl in any activities had Lady Luck wih them...
#114
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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any kind of colours or optionals and soon 991 RS
#116
#117
Drifting
I've cut a bit out, but while I respect anyone's opinions on how the branding works, and while you may well be an expert in branding and marketing (I have no idea and I am not an expert), your stated opinions do not tally with what I have seen doing some of the relevant brand management and marketing. You are seeing things from a very non-business, data-agnostic perspective. You are expressing passion, which all the brands "sell" but it's not what they are actually interested in. They are interested in money. Passion for their brands is shown to them in dollars. They do NOT care about the enthusiasm unless it is backed up by dollars and value one way or another.
"Aura" is more usually referred to with irritatingly jargonistic terms like "buzz" in the short term. I think you are trying to say something about the longer term and the most normal phrase is "brand equity".
Actual racing constitutes relatively little active brand equity any more. It is a big part of heritage, but aside from a few individual races and their specific demographic and geographic adherents (Sebring, Le Mans, Monaco, Indy, Daytona, Bathurst, etc) current racing prowess has been proven ineffective as an unsupported marketing - read branding - tool. With a smart and well targeted effort, success in even "lesser" series' or a few races can work wonders.
Porsche maintains a connection to racing both by being involved and promoting some of its cars to those who wish to race at different levels. BMW has done the same in the past. Mazda's contingency programs have at times done wonders for them. Aston Martin has been racing again for some years now and it has done next to nothing for them. For most of the brands, and to a very large extent for Porsche, perception of performance is more valuable than actual racing victories. More important still are perceived value, perceived and actual exclusivity (that's the big one separating premium from the true high end), perceived technological leadership, and perceived quality (which translates primarily to reliability and service response).
When Ferrari spent two decades in the F1 wilderness, it didn't fail to sell cars. Lamborghini has no racing heritage and, while you don't think they have an aura, their sales and brand loyalty suggest otherwise especially as the quality of the cars has consistently improved since the VAG purchase. Bugatti has no racing heritage within living memory and had no problem selling endless variations of the same car; Pagani likewise. I could go on. I won't. Suffice to say that Porsche's brand perception amongst the younger set has to do with performance, technology, and accessibility more than with racing per se, and that will stand them well unless they make a terrible error.
Your demographic doesn't much matter until and unless it begins to buy cars in large numbers or shows some other real influence. What you may not realize is that when those who are currently in their fifties have ceased to buy the cars, people like you will be in their fifties and no longer inhabiting your current demographic. (I'm in my 40s, BTW and never even wanted a Porsche until a couple of years ago and just bought my first.) People change.
Porsche doesn't need to sell you a car today if they can make you aspire to one until you can afford one. They may **** you off, and others will step in to take your place in the order queue so long as they fulfill the brand promise. If you think you will "get back at them" by becoming an evangelist for another brand, think again. Porsch isn't competing with Ferrari, or McLaren, or Lamborghini, etc. They are each selling to much the same market, and they are each quite successfully selling everything they make at the moment.
The view of Millennials about McLaren, etc, and the advent of the self-driving car is not of tremendous import. It won't be for decades, and possibly never (never to me, at least - not in my lifetime or my child's!). You may not understand what a tiny portion of the consumer base has ever bought these types of cars. That tiny portion won't disappear. They will still seek thrills and toys. Those that can afford them will still have self driving cars, drink chai lattes, and grow Victorian beards if that is what ends up defining their generation as they age.
You are, at the moment, exactly what I suspect a Porsche GT brand manager wants to see: a person that really aspires to and wants the product, but is proving its exclusivity and getting actual owners to rally to the brand. You may think the marketing isn't working for the future; I would suggest you are demonstrating how well it is working in the present, which is the timeframe about which the current brand managers and sales force care.
Again, good luck to you. I haven't driven an RS yet, but I am confident they the GT3s will live up to your hopes and aspirations. So too will whatever other brand you choose. Luxury purchase satisfaction is incredibly self-fueling, except in the case of a lemon...and the best of the manufacturers will convince their real brand adherents that the lemon was a good experience despite all evidence! That's high brand equity.
"Aura" is more usually referred to with irritatingly jargonistic terms like "buzz" in the short term. I think you are trying to say something about the longer term and the most normal phrase is "brand equity".
Actual racing constitutes relatively little active brand equity any more. It is a big part of heritage, but aside from a few individual races and their specific demographic and geographic adherents (Sebring, Le Mans, Monaco, Indy, Daytona, Bathurst, etc) current racing prowess has been proven ineffective as an unsupported marketing - read branding - tool. With a smart and well targeted effort, success in even "lesser" series' or a few races can work wonders.
Porsche maintains a connection to racing both by being involved and promoting some of its cars to those who wish to race at different levels. BMW has done the same in the past. Mazda's contingency programs have at times done wonders for them. Aston Martin has been racing again for some years now and it has done next to nothing for them. For most of the brands, and to a very large extent for Porsche, perception of performance is more valuable than actual racing victories. More important still are perceived value, perceived and actual exclusivity (that's the big one separating premium from the true high end), perceived technological leadership, and perceived quality (which translates primarily to reliability and service response).
When Ferrari spent two decades in the F1 wilderness, it didn't fail to sell cars. Lamborghini has no racing heritage and, while you don't think they have an aura, their sales and brand loyalty suggest otherwise especially as the quality of the cars has consistently improved since the VAG purchase. Bugatti has no racing heritage within living memory and had no problem selling endless variations of the same car; Pagani likewise. I could go on. I won't. Suffice to say that Porsche's brand perception amongst the younger set has to do with performance, technology, and accessibility more than with racing per se, and that will stand them well unless they make a terrible error.
Your demographic doesn't much matter until and unless it begins to buy cars in large numbers or shows some other real influence. What you may not realize is that when those who are currently in their fifties have ceased to buy the cars, people like you will be in their fifties and no longer inhabiting your current demographic. (I'm in my 40s, BTW and never even wanted a Porsche until a couple of years ago and just bought my first.) People change.
Porsche doesn't need to sell you a car today if they can make you aspire to one until you can afford one. They may **** you off, and others will step in to take your place in the order queue so long as they fulfill the brand promise. If you think you will "get back at them" by becoming an evangelist for another brand, think again. Porsch isn't competing with Ferrari, or McLaren, or Lamborghini, etc. They are each selling to much the same market, and they are each quite successfully selling everything they make at the moment.
The view of Millennials about McLaren, etc, and the advent of the self-driving car is not of tremendous import. It won't be for decades, and possibly never (never to me, at least - not in my lifetime or my child's!). You may not understand what a tiny portion of the consumer base has ever bought these types of cars. That tiny portion won't disappear. They will still seek thrills and toys. Those that can afford them will still have self driving cars, drink chai lattes, and grow Victorian beards if that is what ends up defining their generation as they age.
You are, at the moment, exactly what I suspect a Porsche GT brand manager wants to see: a person that really aspires to and wants the product, but is proving its exclusivity and getting actual owners to rally to the brand. You may think the marketing isn't working for the future; I would suggest you are demonstrating how well it is working in the present, which is the timeframe about which the current brand managers and sales force care.
Again, good luck to you. I haven't driven an RS yet, but I am confident they the GT3s will live up to your hopes and aspirations. So too will whatever other brand you choose. Luxury purchase satisfaction is incredibly self-fueling, except in the case of a lemon...and the best of the manufacturers will convince their real brand adherents that the lemon was a good experience despite all evidence! That's high brand equity.
For the OP:
If you want the opportunity to stroll into a dealer and order the hottest new thing to spec you'll need either (1) a strong relationship with a dealer (typically "earned" by buying lots of cars from them) or (2) a big red envelope of cash.
Alternatively, you can buy used cars at prevailing market prices and enjoy them until it's time for the next toy, which is what I've done, and plan to continue doing.
As for the demographic observations:
I am 26 and have driven 911s since the very first day I could afford to do so, nearly four years ago. I picked up a 993 the day I got paid my first bonus, and then a 997.1 GT3 two years later; this year I sold my 993 to a rennlister and lost my first GT3 when a 16 year old doofus turned left across an intersection without looking, totaling the car. I picked up a 991 GT3 this summer. I am probably a "dream" long-term, captive customer from the marketing department's standpoint, but no dealer has ever given me the time of day, and I'm not willing to supplicate for the "opportunity" to order a new car. My next one will probably be from a competitor.
#118
That is very true but the feeling you get when you get to spec your own car is second to none and so I can see why he'd want to wait until a next gen RS so he can enjoy those aspects, at the end of the day it is all on your own preference and to each his own!
#119
Was thinking of this suggestion just before I saw Bloose993TT write it....then later saw references to the big red envelope....don't know if Mooty (of whom I have a ton of respect) and others were being literal in this case, but surely buying an available 991RS now at whatever "reasonable" price you can stomach (...note I said stomach and not afford) and then developing a great relationship through service (and all the other suggestions already provided above) AND letting such dealer know you'd be keen to "trade" your 991RS for the next gen available, the big red envelope comes in the form of the great trade value you offer the dealer this time. The point I am not-so articulately trying to make is to pay a bit extra now for an available 991RS (or even 997RS) and take a warm bath on a trade for the next gen RS, so that the next time one becomes available you have a shot at one at MSRP w/o a warm bath. Under this scenario I figure you're out an extra $150k or so and then have the kind of relationship you seek. And this kind of red envelope may be a bit more palatable than an actual one with cash.
It's surely not the kind of lightening speed we saw Superquant execute (hat's off!), but gets you where (I think) you're trying to get w/o buying a 918 or ten to 20 P cars over the next dozen years.
As many have said, Porsche has little interest in any single enthusiast and there are no shortcuts to great, long-term relationships (though as Mooty said, essentially, it's not clear that "relationship" and "dealership" ever belong in the same sentence).
Good luck with your search and don't give up the dream.
#120
Drifting
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Rennlist has become so boring. And human nature never ceases to amaze me. Some of you feel compelled to help by way of advice and sharing your experiences. While the others point out the entitlement and arrogance of the OP. All the while, the OP argues and brags and whines.
OP: if you're so smart and capable, do some research and figure it out on your own. You clearly aren't taking anyone's advice, so go prove us all wrong.
To the rest of you... please don't feed the trolls.
OP: if you're so smart and capable, do some research and figure it out on your own. You clearly aren't taking anyone's advice, so go prove us all wrong.
To the rest of you... please don't feed the trolls.