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This is a very relevant question. And never mind 10-15 HP; the incremental gain between the 997.2 GT3 and 991.1 GT3 was 40 HP. Without turbocharging how will Porsche extract anything close to that for the next generation while maintaining reliability and a pricing structure that slots the GT3 between a high end Carrera and the Turbo, not to mention the need to remain competitive with other manufacturers and possible ripples from dieselgate.
I'm not necessarily buying the rumors or predicting a turbo "GT3", but I also wouldn't be too surprised if it happens. I thought from the beginning that this generation of GT3 might be the last pure NA version (ie not a hybrid either) and it's a big reason why I put down a deposit on one back in 2012.
I think the issue being contested is whether the 991.2 GT3 (not a "992" GT3) will be Turbo. A little tweaking in terms of HP, styling, weight will keep the NA 991.2 GT3 interesting enough for demand to stay strong.
As to subsequent GT3s needing more performance boost to keep up with the top Carreras is a very valid point. That's why some of us question whether the GT3 badge is now over, with the GT2/GT2RS taking over as Porsche's track weapon in the line-up (until ?960).
Something weird happened in China. Porsche cancelled all the rs allocation and the dealer can't put orders anymore. Also the allocation been given to the customers are cancelled too. Gt3 and rs removed form Chinese Porsche website. I guess Porsche might move the allocation to euro and North America to meet the demand.
Whatever happens hold your .1 gt3 and gt3 rs for now. Even there is a .2 NA gt3 with .1 gt3 and rs you have a better chance the get the .2 than people without. And for people got the 3 and rs they won't lose too much money when they trade in for .2
Something has definitely changed since I talked to AP at Rennsport. And I'm not talking about the group talk at the PCA tent. He was exceedingly clear about 991.2 GT3/RS timelines and details. I believe he WAS telling the truth but I wonder if Dieselgate changed all racing/GT programs coupled with ACO new rules. I will do my usual sleuthing at Daytona but it seems something has changed.
Guys there s nothing so difficult so no bets but one way charity eventually so pls do so
There s no GT2 /GT2 RS badge for 991.2 but it will be badged GT3 and GT3 RS and be Turbo
No more NAs (Apart two VIP limited iterations
aka 991R and 991RS light (aka Cup) edition made in few units (600/900 units) and btw not GT3
also the GT3 Turbo it is anticipated 1 year (End 2016 rather than already AP confirmed months ago End 2017) to compete with Ferrari 488 Turbo just homologated at WEC
where Porsche just retired the current NAs
So current 991 GT3 IS the last NA GT3 forever
(and highest revving 911 pure NA produced since the first 911)
Porsche german Official dealers used 991.1 GT3 prices are already shooting the roof + The WEC above + Some Reliable Cleaning Ladies
Easy no?
Originally Posted by doubleurx
Well not necessarily in the new world of Porsche. The new 911's are not called turbos, yet they are.
The statements by AP were all before the Diesel fiasco came to full light.
Explain to me how slapping on turbo's is a cheaper alternative to just keeping the engine the way it is?
The GT3 and GT3 RS were never about big power. The new 911's are turbo's because of the EPA. And for you to know the EPA uses average MPG based on the entire fleet, NOT on particular cars. So if all the turbo's are now more fuel efficient the GT car's do not need to be.
Just because WV lost money, how does slapping on some turbo's help their cause?
Look at lamborghini. Not a single turbo in the line up.
Currently the GT3 and GT3 RS handle way better than the turbo/turbo S. If they made that car have turbo level power, do u know how money in R&D it's going to take to make those cars able to handle it just as well as without the turbos?
Something has definitely changed since I talked to AP at Rennsport. And I'm not talking about the group talk at the PCA tent. He was exceedingly clear about 991.2 GT3/RS timelines and details. I believe he WAS telling the truth but I wonder if Dieselgate changed all racing/GT programs coupled with ACO new rules. I will do my usual sleuthing at Daytona but it seems something has changed.
You are right,
I just can't say what. Has to do with future strategy on spending. They are waiting and not allowed to make decisions until a few things have been sorted out.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
Look at lamborghini. Not a single turbo in the line up.
Not yet anyway. It's too early to say that definitively they won't in the very near future. Especially since that SUV thing they're building is coming with a twin turbo engine.
guest89. You and I are very much aligned in though here.
Just a couple of small things. Everyone says the RS engine revs out to 8800. It only does this in first gear using MT mode. A lot if RS owners have been shy to fess up this. Amazing what power PAG has to gag journalists at launches!
Second. The GT3 &RS crank. We don't know of sure they are different do we? During the PCNA tech clinic earlier in the year I believed it was confirmed there were no changes between the cranks in the engines other than rod couplers for different spec 4.0 rod bottom end. I may be wrong but no one has shown me a PET or tech sales manual for the RS yet a car that's been with customers now 4+ months which seems really curious. The GT3 PET was circulating before the car was delivered in USA.
Sorry. Small things probably shouldn't use space up here on but interesting points none the less.
I made a few enquired overnight in Europe. Can't get anyone at PAG to sing but spoke to one Porsche dealer who collaborated that the 991 GT3 is last of breed. He may have been keeping trade values high tho as I inherently don't trust dealers know any more than the man on the street in these things.
Curiously in my home market used 991 GT3 no longer exist. Not a single one advertised. When asking a recent customer who did manage to snag a used example through the dealer network before it made the Internet for sale he told me the sales guy said it would be the last NA model! I think that's a bit premature. the GT3/RS may be the last NA volume model but not necessarily the 1.1.
Anyway for me I'm fence sitting. Going turbo in 2017 for GT3 seems too soon. But maybe it's possible and maybe that's why they can give us MT (lower rpm, more torque - won't hit their headline figures as badly?)
I think the issue being contested is whether the 991.2 GT3 (not a "992" GT3) will be Turbo. A little tweaking in terms of HP, styling, weight will keep the NA 991.2 GT3 interesting enough for demand to stay strong.
As to subsequent GT3s needing more performance boost to keep up with the top Carreras is a very valid point. That's why some of us question whether the GT3 badge is now over, with the GT2/GT2RS taking over as Porsche's track weapon in the line-up (until ?960).
I won't try to split hairs about 991.2 versus 992. I just think that the playing field has been tilted in the last few months and along with it the increased possibility of changes in Porsche's product offerings. Whatever it's designation, I won't be that surprised if the next GT3 is a) delayed and/or b) equipped with something besides a pure NA engine.
Explain to me how slapping on turbo's is a cheaper alternative to just keeping the engine the way it is?
The GT3 and GT3 RS were never about big power. The new 911's are turbo's because of the EPA. And for you to know the EPA uses average MPG based on the entire fleet, NOT on particular cars. So if all the turbo's are now more fuel efficient the GT car's do not need to be.
Just because WV lost money, how does slapping on some turbo's help their cause?
Look at lamborghini. Not a single turbo in the line up.
Currently the GT3 and GT3 RS handle way better than the turbo/turbo S. If they made that car have turbo level power, do u know how money in R&D it's going to take to make those cars able to handle it just as well as without the turbos?
It has nothing to do with whether or not it is cheaper. Turbos are cleaner than NA cars, much cleaner. One thing is for sure for VW, Audi and Porsche - they need to come out of this fiasco as having very clean running vehicles in order to survive. Turbos and hybrids are the only current viable option available to them. I just don't see them continuing with N/A motors that get 15 mpg and burn less clean than other options.
While development of a new Turbo GT motor (pretty sure its been in the works), is certainly pricey, in the long run, it is a less expensive endeavor to make more power than the refinements a N/A motor requires.
Some body on this forum once said that one day the 2014 GT3s and all the fires and intrigue surrounding them that they may be a very coveted cars in years to come
guest89. You and I are very much aligned in though here.
Just a couple of small things. Everyone says the RS engine revs out to 8800. It only does this in first gear using MT mode. A lot if RS owners have been shy to fess up this. Amazing what power PAG has to gag journalists at launches!
Second. The GT3 &RS crank. We don't know of sure they are different do we? During the PCNA tech clinic earlier in the year I believed it was confirmed there were no changes between the cranks in the engines other than rod couplers for different spec 4.0 rod bottom end. I may be wrong but no one has shown me a PET or tech sales manual for the RS yet a car that's been with customers now 4+ months which seems really curious. The GT3 PET was circulating before the car was delivered in USA.
Sorry. Small things probably shouldn't use space up here on but interesting points none the less.
I made a few enquired overnight in Europe. Can't get anyone at PAG to sing but spoke to one Porsche dealer who collaborated that the 991 GT3 is last of breed. He may have been keeping trade values high tho as I inherently don't trust dealers know any more than the man on the street in these things.
Curiously in my home market used 991 GT3 no longer exist. Not a single one advertised. When asking a recent customer who did manage to snag a used example through the dealer network before it made the Internet for sale he told me the sales guy said it would be the last NA model! I think that's a bit premature. the GT3/RS may be the last NA volume model but not necessarily the 1.1.
Anyway for me I'm fence sitting. Going turbo in 2017 for GT3 seems too soon. But maybe it's possible and maybe that's why they can give us MT (lower rpm, more torque - won't hit their headline figures as badly?)
Originally Posted by Mike in CA
I won't try to split hairs about 991.2 versus 992. I just think that the playing field has been tilted in the last few months and along with it the increased possibility of changes in Porsche's product offerings. Whatever it's designation, I won't be that surprised if the next GT3 is a) delayed and/or b) equipped with something besides a pure NA engine.
Fully agree.
The thread I started pre-dated all of the dieselgate fiasco.
12-15-2015, 03:13 PM
so pls do so
