RS buyers: Is your dealer making you sign a "right of first refusal buyback at MSRP"?
10-06-2015, 02:49 AM
#91
Why? ... for listing the GT3RS with an asking price that the market may support ... this is the United States of America, the land of free enterprise!
To change this status quo either PAG has to make more halo cars (which they won't as they don't want these cars to languish on showroom floors or dealer's lots) or the demand for these cars has to lessen (doubtful with these well-engineered cars).
Why would PCNA ever "punish" dealers for testing the waters and trying to make a profit?
To change this status quo either PAG has to make more halo cars (which they won't as they don't want these cars to languish on showroom floors or dealer's lots) or the demand for these cars has to lessen (doubtful with these well-engineered cars).
Why would PCNA ever "punish" dealers for testing the waters and trying to make a profit?
I for one would be totally ok with fixed prices on cars. The slight of hand and back room shenanigans that go on with dealers is the main reason everyone hates car dealers. Make it a fixed price, same for everyone, no games, and no dealers. Everyone will be much happier with their car buying experience in the end.
10-06-2015, 09:06 AM
#92
Three Wheelin'
I have no issues with one price model but I'm not 100% it will be as wonderful as many think. While Porsche certainly recognizes the strong negative opinions involved with current system a one price model is difficult to achieve when you have certain potential environments that cars won't sell at one price, models that aren't as well received, bad economic conditions, and many more. As I have said before the current system has certainly helped me more than it has hurt with substantial discounts in past on some models. Tesla's business model is proven up to this point because they only have had 1 model (2 now) that has demand that matches supply, but it remains to be seen on what happens when a model gets stagnant or production exceeds demand? They most likely will incentivize models (lower price or other specials) to move them just like dealers do. I guess at end of day we hate dealers so much we would rather have the manufacturer keep all potential profits vs having the middleman involved but as I have said I don't think at end of day you will save any money and for me that's what I would prefer. I think the idea of raising msrp is also rediculious....what good will that do? It would raise Porsches margin but doesn't save customers anything and at end of day isn't that what chaps everyone's hides is the additional money many must pay to get the car you want? If Porsche made msrp $300k on RS how does that help us? IMO the same dealers would be padding it for additional margins if they could even at that level.
10-06-2015, 10:38 AM
#93
Here is the form of the last agreement posted on the SEC for a Porsche dealer, the termination provisions for Porsche make it a massive financial cost to try to change the model. Note that there is nothing in the agreement that stops Porsche from changing their allocation approach.
I don't know if you can argue the Tesla model really works yet - huge buyback obligations on their balance sheet and very early to call it a success imo.
10-06-2015, 11:08 AM
#94
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by sccchiii
I have no issues with one price model but I'm not 100% it will be as wonderful as many think. While Porsche certainly recognizes the strong negative opinions involved with current system a one price model is difficult to achieve when you have certain potential environments that cars won't sell at one price, models that aren't as well received, bad economic conditions, and many more. As I have said before the current system has certainly helped me more than it has hurt with substantial discounts in past on some models. Tesla's business model is proven up to this point because they only have had 1 model (2 now) that has demand that matches supply, but it remains to be seen on what happens when a model gets stagnant or production exceeds demand? They most likely will incentivize models (lower price or other specials) to move them just like dealers do. I guess at end of day we hate dealers so much we would rather have the manufacturer keep all potential profits vs having the middleman involved but as I have said I don't think at end of day you will save any money and for me that's what I would prefer. I think the idea of raising msrp is also rediculious....what good will that do? It would raise Porsches margin but doesn't save customers anything and at end of day isn't that what chaps everyone's hides is the additional money many must pay to get the car you want? If Porsche made msrp $300k on RS how does that help us? IMO the same dealers would be padding it for additional margins if they could even at that level.
10-06-2015, 11:44 AM
#95
I'm not saying Porsche can't put cars on sale. The difference is that when a car is on sale, everyone can buy the car at that price. No different than buying something from any brick and mortar store like apple or Best Buy. New gadgets at msrp because everyone wants one. Advertised sales when it's appropriate. Poor elderly couples aren't getting fleeced by car salesman because they don't know any better. I remember trying to buy a bmw once and wanted the 'sale' that bmw was advertising, but when the paperwork was drawn up, they tried to eliminate the sales price by playing smoke and mirror games. This is what makes the buying experience so horrible.
10-06-2015, 12:06 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
punishment for making car buying a nasty no fun affair and lessening the reputation of the marque and violating terms of franchise. Punishment for being slimy and pimplike, changing purchasing from a franchise to an ebay like affair, solutions, sell cars direct, give allocations to individuals not dealers or make more cars
10-06-2015, 12:20 PM
#97
Three Wheelin'
Porsche is now suffering due to VW's financial problems.
Here is the form of the last agreement posted on the SEC for a Porsche dealer, the termination provisions for Porsche make it a massive financial cost to try to change the model. Note that there is nothing in the agreement that stops Porsche from changing their allocation approach.
I don't know if you can argue the Tesla model really works yet - huge buyback obligations on their balance sheet and very early to call it a success imo.
Here is the form of the last agreement posted on the SEC for a Porsche dealer, the termination provisions for Porsche make it a massive financial cost to try to change the model. Note that there is nothing in the agreement that stops Porsche from changing their allocation approach.
I don't know if you can argue the Tesla model really works yet - huge buyback obligations on their balance sheet and very early to call it a success imo.
10-06-2015, 12:26 PM
#99
Once again......Many other factors are at play with regard to potential changes to allocation process. The list is quite long....Many states have franchise laws with allocation language in them specific to auto franchise agreements. If allocation process were to change it could lead to dealers claiming that certain dealers are getting preferential treatment and is unfair. It could affect a dealers ability to sell cars effectively in there PMA. All this leads to a battle with NADA that Porsche does not want to have again but yes they could potentially change it as long as the dealer body agrees that it is equitable and fair.
From the Agreement:
AVAILABILITY AND ALLOCATION OF PORSCHE PRODUCTS
Porsche will endeavor to fill DEALER's orders accepted by Porsche for PORSCHE PRODUCTS, in such quantities and types as Porsche deems reasonable subject to available supply, Porsche's requirements, DEALER'S historical sales performance and business needs, and any change or discontinuance with respect to a PORSCHE PRODUCT. Nothing contained in this Agreement, however, shall obligate Porsche to deliver to DEALER any particular number of PORSCHE PRODUCTS. DEALER acknowledges that the availability of PORSCHE PRODUCTS may be limited from time to time due to factors such as production capacity, varying consumer demand, weather and transportation conditions, and government regulations. Porsche will endeavor to distribute available PORSCHE PRODUCTS among its dealers in a fair
and equitable manner. Upon DEALER's written request, Porsche agrees to provide DEALER with an explanation of the method used to allocate PORSCHE PRODUCTS.
10-06-2015, 12:52 PM
#100
Three Wheelin'
I assume you didn't read the agreement so here it is, it gives PCNA a lot of flexibility due to "varying consumer demand" and only requires them to be "fair and equitable". Hard to argue what VW did with the Golf R buy letting customers pick their dealer wasn't varying it by customer demand and fair and equitable. They obviously got it passed NADA...
From the Agreement:
AVAILABILITY AND ALLOCATION OF PORSCHE PRODUCTS
Porsche will endeavor to fill DEALER's orders accepted by Porsche for PORSCHE PRODUCTS, in such quantities and types as Porsche deems reasonable subject to available supply, Porsche's requirements, DEALER'S historical sales performance and business needs, and any change or discontinuance with respect to a PORSCHE PRODUCT. Nothing contained in this Agreement, however, shall obligate Porsche to deliver to DEALER any particular number of PORSCHE PRODUCTS. DEALER acknowledges that the availability of PORSCHE PRODUCTS may be limited from time to time due to factors such as production capacity, varying consumer demand, weather and transportation conditions, and government regulations. Porsche will endeavor to distribute available PORSCHE PRODUCTS among its dealers in a fair
and equitable manner. Upon DEALER's written request, Porsche agrees to provide DEALER with an explanation of the method used to allocate PORSCHE PRODUCTS.
From the Agreement:
AVAILABILITY AND ALLOCATION OF PORSCHE PRODUCTS
Porsche will endeavor to fill DEALER's orders accepted by Porsche for PORSCHE PRODUCTS, in such quantities and types as Porsche deems reasonable subject to available supply, Porsche's requirements, DEALER'S historical sales performance and business needs, and any change or discontinuance with respect to a PORSCHE PRODUCT. Nothing contained in this Agreement, however, shall obligate Porsche to deliver to DEALER any particular number of PORSCHE PRODUCTS. DEALER acknowledges that the availability of PORSCHE PRODUCTS may be limited from time to time due to factors such as production capacity, varying consumer demand, weather and transportation conditions, and government regulations. Porsche will endeavor to distribute available PORSCHE PRODUCTS among its dealers in a fair
and equitable manner. Upon DEALER's written request, Porsche agrees to provide DEALER with an explanation of the method used to allocate PORSCHE PRODUCTS.
10-06-2015, 01:59 PM
#101
I am intimately familiar with the dealer agreements as I have stated before.....but we don't see the challenges the same so I guess hold your breath waiting for big allocation changes that goes to correct the problem at hand and at same time makes it "equitable and fair" in dealers eyes.
10-06-2015, 08:34 PM
#103
Rennlist Member