My initial thoughts on GT3 vs 458 Speciale
04-05-2015, 09:17 AM
#46
If you had to pick one over the other to own which would it be? I currently have a 15 991 GT3 and an RS 4.0 but have the Scud itch pretty badly. I'm very torn and owning both isn't in the cards at this time.
If you had my dilemma would you keep the GT3 or swap out for a Scud? I understand they are 2 different animals altogether...
Thanks for any insight
If you had my dilemma would you keep the GT3 or swap out for a Scud? I understand they are 2 different animals altogether...
Thanks for any insight
07-20-2015, 05:17 AM
#47
Follow-up and update on my original post...
Originally my two big issues with the Speciale were the seats, and the brakes. Both issues have now been fully resolved.
I had the brakes bled during my recent service visit. Problem completely solved. The pedal is now rock solid and has excellent feel. All of the spongy, grippy feel is completely gone.
Regarding the seats, I found a pair of comfortable and much better padded Enzo seats in Germany. I'm in process of having them mounted in the Speciale right now. They are in brand new condition, and not only will solve the comfort issue, but will look nice as well. I'll keep the wooden crates that are used to ship the Enzo seats to the US, wrap my Speciale seats in plastic, and put them in the creates to store them... so someday if/when I need to put the original seats back in the car, they'll be well-preserved.
I love both the GT3 and Speciale, and find myself driving them on different days, depending on what I desire for that particular day's driving experience. Since I dislike turbo cars, I have no interest in the new forthcoming 488. So I feel like the Speciale is "the" car for me as a long-term keeper.
Photo of Enzo seats....
Originally my two big issues with the Speciale were the seats, and the brakes. Both issues have now been fully resolved.
I had the brakes bled during my recent service visit. Problem completely solved. The pedal is now rock solid and has excellent feel. All of the spongy, grippy feel is completely gone.
Regarding the seats, I found a pair of comfortable and much better padded Enzo seats in Germany. I'm in process of having them mounted in the Speciale right now. They are in brand new condition, and not only will solve the comfort issue, but will look nice as well. I'll keep the wooden crates that are used to ship the Enzo seats to the US, wrap my Speciale seats in plastic, and put them in the creates to store them... so someday if/when I need to put the original seats back in the car, they'll be well-preserved.
I love both the GT3 and Speciale, and find myself driving them on different days, depending on what I desire for that particular day's driving experience. Since I dislike turbo cars, I have no interest in the new forthcoming 488. So I feel like the Speciale is "the" car for me as a long-term keeper.
Photo of Enzo seats....
07-20-2015, 11:05 AM
#49
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Another problem I'm having with the Speciale is with the brakes. They are very "grippy." There is not a linear relationship between brake pressure and the amount of stopping power delivered by the car. Once you get beyond a certain point, these brakes go all-in. They pull you in to "hard braking" at times when that is NOT what you want. I thought maybe it would change once I got some heat into them. But they do the same regardless of whether they're hot or cold. So stops, especially in city driving, tend to be herky-jerky. Maybe this will change once they get some wear on them. We'll see.
07-21-2015, 11:06 AM
#50
07-21-2015, 06:34 PM
#51
Race Director
Speciale vs Gt3 5th Gear Track Battle Video
Surprised.. amazed no one posted this yet... a fitting and timely complement to this thread... I won't reveal the result.. but the driving was very very good.
Tiff Needell vs Chris Harris... wow.
Tiff Needell vs Chris Harris... wow.
07-22-2015, 02:03 AM
#52
There's more to the episode; this vid is a little screwed up (0:00-6:35, 23:30-30:27, 38:10-44:47, 46:16-47:46, 49:17-50:15, 50:48-53:47, 55:17-58:18 it's all cut up, but you get the idea--I think there was a better link somewhere...)
07-22-2015, 02:08 AM
#53
Found it (https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...s-991-gt3.html), but indeed the earlier youtube vid is now down:
Don't think this has been posted before.. Will probably be off youtube in a while.
http://youtu.be/KebcJNa_xCY
Really can't wait for reviews on the RS.. It should have a bigger advantage on the curves atleast. Once again comparing the GT3 to the speciale is UNFAIR!
Karim
http://youtu.be/KebcJNa_xCY
Really can't wait for reviews on the RS.. It should have a bigger advantage on the curves atleast. Once again comparing the GT3 to the speciale is UNFAIR!
Karim
07-22-2015, 06:59 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
thx for sharing your thoughts!
i´m able to compare a F430 with a 997.1 GT3 - both i owned/drove already a bit longer. and i would write the same lines as the opening post.
the 458 Speciale = the main character in my wet dreams!
perfect color choice btw!
i didn´t drove one so far. neither a GT3RS. but i guess (sry to say) i would choose the Speciale over the 991GT3 even over the 991GT3RS.
i´m able to compare a F430 with a 997.1 GT3 - both i owned/drove already a bit longer. and i would write the same lines as the opening post.
the 458 Speciale = the main character in my wet dreams!
perfect color choice btw!
i didn´t drove one so far. neither a GT3RS. but i guess (sry to say) i would choose the Speciale over the 991GT3 even over the 991GT3RS.
08-11-2015, 08:22 AM
#56
Track Comparison
So, I just took delivery of my Speciale last week and took it straight to Mid Ohio Friday, then the new combined track at Pitt Race Saturday and Sunday.
Here are my thoughts...
First, my opinions are almost all based on track performance. I hardly ever street drove my last 458, don't plan on street'ing this Speciale and never street drove my GT3 (except a few times to and from Sebring Int'l to a local gas station to avoid paying $10 a gallon for 93 octane??). Although, I did take the Speciale up and down the block a couple of times.
Just like my last '14 458, this Speciale has very similar gremlins. Power seems to fade as ambient temps rise, transmission gets somewhat sluggish and brakes are just plain inconsistent lap over lap let alone throughout the day.
The Speciale certainly has better power, felt modesty more nimble than my Spider, but there really was not a noticeable difference from a "non Speciale". (I ran stock except traded the MPCS'2 into Trofeo R).
The single biggest difference between the power of the Speciale vs. GT3 is in the low RPM torque! WOW. The V8 of the Speciale is so strong that you really need to rethink what gear you need to be in??? While both cars redline at 900000000 (extra zero's added for emphasis
), the GT3 feels most comfortable staying about 6000 and over all the way to redline while the Speciale seems to pump out sheer, brute torque at any rpm. Crazy torque, to the point you can still spin wheels coming out of turns in tall gears you'd never think about in the GT3.
What was great over the weekend was that my student drove a '14 991 GT3, very similar to my GT3 with exception that I run Hoosier R7's and steel brakes. His was stock MPC2 and ceramic making for even better immediate comparison. (His car was white. It's relevant for my closing comment later) He asked me to drive him in his car a session and had the perfect opportunity to go back to back making my butt sensor test real time.
The GT3 is better planted, responsive with feel to the ground and PREDICTABLE. The Speciale is simply NOT. The steering inputs of the Ferrari back to the driver is too light? While it makes the car feel way lighter than it is, you lose confidence because it artificially masks the car's character to the track?
My caveat is that I'm not a pro. Plus, anyone that tracks knows there's an element of recklessness or rather understanding the reality of contact w/ a tire wall
that can add or subtract a few tics on the clock that I was trying to avoid. Perhaps, pound for pound the stats for the Speciale dwarf the GT3, but for a driver's car on track, the GT3 is hands down the winner in my book.
On a positive note for the Ferrari, a funny incident occurred with the GT3 that would NEVER happen with the Speciale.
I had a friend who was also driving with me over the weekend in his "WHITE" 991 GT3. Both, my student's car and his car were lined up next to each other. While he was pouring gas into what he thought was his car, I asked him why he was filling my student's car? He simply said, "****."
I don't think this would ever happen to a Speciale??
Here are my thoughts...
First, my opinions are almost all based on track performance. I hardly ever street drove my last 458, don't plan on street'ing this Speciale and never street drove my GT3 (except a few times to and from Sebring Int'l to a local gas station to avoid paying $10 a gallon for 93 octane??). Although, I did take the Speciale up and down the block a couple of times.
Just like my last '14 458, this Speciale has very similar gremlins. Power seems to fade as ambient temps rise, transmission gets somewhat sluggish and brakes are just plain inconsistent lap over lap let alone throughout the day.
The Speciale certainly has better power, felt modesty more nimble than my Spider, but there really was not a noticeable difference from a "non Speciale". (I ran stock except traded the MPCS'2 into Trofeo R).
The single biggest difference between the power of the Speciale vs. GT3 is in the low RPM torque! WOW. The V8 of the Speciale is so strong that you really need to rethink what gear you need to be in??? While both cars redline at 900000000 (extra zero's added for emphasis
), the GT3 feels most comfortable staying about 6000 and over all the way to redline while the Speciale seems to pump out sheer, brute torque at any rpm. Crazy torque, to the point you can still spin wheels coming out of turns in tall gears you'd never think about in the GT3.What was great over the weekend was that my student drove a '14 991 GT3, very similar to my GT3 with exception that I run Hoosier R7's and steel brakes. His was stock MPC2 and ceramic making for even better immediate comparison. (His car was white. It's relevant for my closing comment later) He asked me to drive him in his car a session and had the perfect opportunity to go back to back making my butt sensor test real time.
The GT3 is better planted, responsive with feel to the ground and PREDICTABLE. The Speciale is simply NOT. The steering inputs of the Ferrari back to the driver is too light? While it makes the car feel way lighter than it is, you lose confidence because it artificially masks the car's character to the track?
My caveat is that I'm not a pro. Plus, anyone that tracks knows there's an element of recklessness or rather understanding the reality of contact w/ a tire wall
that can add or subtract a few tics on the clock that I was trying to avoid. Perhaps, pound for pound the stats for the Speciale dwarf the GT3, but for a driver's car on track, the GT3 is hands down the winner in my book.On a positive note for the Ferrari, a funny incident occurred with the GT3 that would NEVER happen with the Speciale.
I had a friend who was also driving with me over the weekend in his "WHITE" 991 GT3. Both, my student's car and his car were lined up next to each other. While he was pouring gas into what he thought was his car, I asked him why he was filling my student's car? He simply said, "****."
I don't think this would ever happen to a Speciale??
08-11-2015, 09:03 AM
#57
So, I just took delivery of my Speciale last week and took it straight to Mid Ohio Friday, then the new combined track at Pitt Race Saturday and Sunday.
Here are my thoughts...
First, my opinions are almost all based on track performance. I hardly ever street drove my last 458, don't plan on street'ing this Speciale and never street drove my GT3 (except a few times to and from Sebring Int'l to a local gas station to avoid paying $10 a gallon for 93 octane??). Although, I did take the Speciale up and down the block a couple of times.
Just like my last '14 458, this Speciale has very similar gremlins. Power seems to fade as ambient temps rise, transmission gets somewhat sluggish and brakes are just plain inconsistent lap over lap let alone throughout the day.
The Speciale certainly has better power, felt modesty more nimble than my Spider, but there really was not a noticeable difference from a "non Speciale". (I ran stock except traded the MPCS'2 into Trofeo R).
The single biggest difference between the power of the Speciale vs. GT3 is in the low RPM torque! WOW. The V8 of the Speciale is so strong that you really need to rethink what gear you need to be in??? While both cars redline at 900000000 (extra zero's added for emphasis), the GT3 feels most comfortable staying about 6000 and over all the way to redline while the Speciale seems to pump out sheer, brute torque at any rpm. Crazy torque, to the point you can still spin wheels coming out of turns in tall gears you'd never think about in the GT3.
What was great over the weekend was that my student drove a '14 991 GT3, very similar to my GT3 with exception that I run Hoosier R7's and steel brakes. His was stock MPC2 and ceramic making for even better immediate comparison. (His car was white. It's relevant for my closing comment later) He asked me to drive him in his car a session and had the perfect opportunity to go back to back making my butt sensor test real time.
The GT3 is better planted, responsive with feel to the ground and PREDICTABLE. The Speciale is simply NOT. The steering inputs of the Ferrari back to the driver is too light? While it makes the car feel way lighter than it is, you lose confidence because it artificially masks the car's character to the track?
My caveat is that I'm not a pro. Plus, anyone that tracks knows there's an element of recklessness or rather understanding the reality of contact w/ a tire wall that can add or subtract a few tics on the clock that I was trying to avoid. Perhaps, pound for pound the stats for the Speciale dwarf the GT3, but for a driver's car on track, the GT3 is hands down the winner in my book.
On a positive note for the Ferrari, a funny incident occurred with the GT3 that would NEVER happen with the Speciale.
I had a friend who was also driving with me over the weekend in his "WHITE" 991 GT3. Both, my student's car and his car were lined up next to each other. While he was pouring gas into what he thought was his car, I asked him why he was filling my student's car? He simply said, "****."
I don't think this would ever happen to a Speciale??
Here are my thoughts...
First, my opinions are almost all based on track performance. I hardly ever street drove my last 458, don't plan on street'ing this Speciale and never street drove my GT3 (except a few times to and from Sebring Int'l to a local gas station to avoid paying $10 a gallon for 93 octane??). Although, I did take the Speciale up and down the block a couple of times.
Just like my last '14 458, this Speciale has very similar gremlins. Power seems to fade as ambient temps rise, transmission gets somewhat sluggish and brakes are just plain inconsistent lap over lap let alone throughout the day.
The Speciale certainly has better power, felt modesty more nimble than my Spider, but there really was not a noticeable difference from a "non Speciale". (I ran stock except traded the MPCS'2 into Trofeo R).
The single biggest difference between the power of the Speciale vs. GT3 is in the low RPM torque! WOW. The V8 of the Speciale is so strong that you really need to rethink what gear you need to be in??? While both cars redline at 900000000 (extra zero's added for emphasis
), the GT3 feels most comfortable staying about 6000 and over all the way to redline while the Speciale seems to pump out sheer, brute torque at any rpm. Crazy torque, to the point you can still spin wheels coming out of turns in tall gears you'd never think about in the GT3.What was great over the weekend was that my student drove a '14 991 GT3, very similar to my GT3 with exception that I run Hoosier R7's and steel brakes. His was stock MPC2 and ceramic making for even better immediate comparison. (His car was white. It's relevant for my closing comment later) He asked me to drive him in his car a session and had the perfect opportunity to go back to back making my butt sensor test real time.
The GT3 is better planted, responsive with feel to the ground and PREDICTABLE. The Speciale is simply NOT. The steering inputs of the Ferrari back to the driver is too light? While it makes the car feel way lighter than it is, you lose confidence because it artificially masks the car's character to the track?
My caveat is that I'm not a pro. Plus, anyone that tracks knows there's an element of recklessness or rather understanding the reality of contact w/ a tire wall
that can add or subtract a few tics on the clock that I was trying to avoid. Perhaps, pound for pound the stats for the Speciale dwarf the GT3, but for a driver's car on track, the GT3 is hands down the winner in my book.On a positive note for the Ferrari, a funny incident occurred with the GT3 that would NEVER happen with the Speciale.
I had a friend who was also driving with me over the weekend in his "WHITE" 991 GT3. Both, my student's car and his car were lined up next to each other. While he was pouring gas into what he thought was his car, I asked him why he was filling my student's car? He simply said, "****."
I don't think this would ever happen to a Speciale??
08-11-2015, 10:42 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Mate thanks for the comparo. Very interesting to read from a guy invested in both, has extensive track time and with clearly no axe to grind as his money has already spoken. A positive outcome for the GT3 punching well above it weight. However the Speciale still looks, feels and sounds...well Speciale! Life is good :-)
08-11-2015, 01:11 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
I can't believe the Speciale with proper setup and alignment would not be 1.5% faster than a gt3 and even a bit faster than a GT3RS.
But, I'm not sure I want to track the Speciale to find out!!
But, I'm not sure I want to track the Speciale to find out!!