996FLT6

PAG didn't acknowledge that coolant fittings was a design flaw- u should really read what their response was to nhsta and CL's that derived from Motorsport- man they mandated owners you should be responsible for maintenance- wtf is that? Don't even know how Porsche uses that marketing til this day of racing pedigree and you guys fall for it. Mike

Mike in CA

Look hf1, not saying this is you or anyone here, but there are people who believe we never landed a man on the moon. There are still people who believe the earth is flat. The point is, there's no amount of logic than can convince someone about something when they don't want to be convinced.

But consider this. Put aside for a second the absurdity of the idea that, having discovered that the problem is essentially a fastener, Porsche can't muster the expertise to engineer a fix. There is at least one huge logical flaw in the theory that Porsche is just BS'ing the engine replacement and is rolling the dice one last time. If that were true, why bother to replace the engines at all? Why not just announce that they discovered a flaw limited to a couple of dozen engines, and that the rest are fine? Or why not BS some cheap and dirty fix for all the engines and make it look like they're doing something proactive for everyone?

FCOL, if they really wanted to take a chance on more fires, possible deaths, and the complete ruin of their reputation with a repeat occurrence, they could have found a hell of a lot cheaper and easier way to do it.

They didn't acknowledge the coolant pipe and CL issue. They did acknowledge the engine issue. They didn't offer compensation and repair on the coolant pipes and CL's. They did on the engine issue. We're getting new engines. It's actually happening. See the difference?

silverrules

They actually replaced my coolant pipes on my 10 yr old Cayenne-s coupe weeks ago and CL were also covered on my GT3. I haven't had any of these issues with Porsche and they continue to impress me and I will be more impressed once a good compensation is offered on the engine swap. I am sure if the engine problem comes back again they will cover it again. Cheer up guys.

F1CrazyDriver

Mike in CA, i respect you, but i need to take you out for a beer brother so you can get this nightmare out of your mind. Mike, either your being delusional or drinking the Porsche kool-aid.


... i wrote a long response but forget it- i'm done.
Some here are dreaming and holding to the last string of hope... here are the 5 stages of denial.

http://www.theprospect.net/wp-conten...ignsdotcom.jpg

hf1

I didn't mean to imply that they could be BS-ing about the engine replacement (as in lying that they are replacing them?). They could have been honest about there being a problem and about their intent to fix it by replacing all engines. What they'd have a huge problem admitting would be that the "fix" may not be as robust as it would have been had they had a year to solve it, or admitting that perhaps they may have overstretched with their claims to 475hp and 9000rpm rev limit about the engine. I'm not saying that this is the case at all (have no basis for making such a claim), but in the (small) chance that it may be the case, they'd have no choice but to act the way they've been acting so far -- roll the dice with the best "fix" they could come up under the circumstances and pray for the best. It's a (non-negligible) risk that would have entered my equation if I was an owner.

996FLT6

So why PAG's change in heart this time? I have a hard time seeing this change unless there are more suckas in this world. Please explain they were sorry and helping u poor folk out. Mike

BBMGT3

lol

this post made me laugh

yes, too many people out there who believe the earth is flat, we haven't landed on the moon, everything is a government conspiracy, and so on.

Porsche will make right. At the end of the day they are Porsche and thats why we buy their cars.

mqandil

I still contend that this is not a design issue with the engine. This engine has been throughly tested without any issues. I still believe they probably had a non verified torque specification that they can't trace, and or with the possibility of manufacturing some related components with slightly larger machining tolerances. In a manufacturing environment this happens a lot, where a batch of parts come in with slightly larger tolerances than what is specified or even come in right at the high end of the acceptable tolerance range and production will flag these parts and send them to engineering for a disposition and engineering will evaluate and use their best educated guess to either reject the parts or accept them. Sometimes the engineer can't foresee a possible tolerance stack up, which can lead to a much larger tolerances than desired. Machining tolerances stack up when Parts are fitted together, and can result in much larger tolerances. The chances of certain part with tolerances at the high end to mate against another part with its tolerances also at the other high end is usually exteremly slim but can happen and sometimes can result in a failure. I have been involved in the design & manufacturing of high speed rotating equipment, for past 29 yrs, and this failure does not seem like a design issue to me. Most looseness in high speed rotating equipment due to bad design or incorrect tolerances or wrong torque specification happens rather fast , and exactly as it was the case with the 2 cars that had engine fires, and we would have seen so many other engine failures if that was an inherent bad design, which also leads me to believe that most of our engines and especially the ones that almost completed or passed the break in period are probably fine but Porsche as a responsible manufacturer can't take a chance and hence they are replacing all engines, and I am sure this time around they are ever careful verifying all the components tolerances and all the torque specifications. So I do expect the new engines to be great and have better quality control than all other engines.... Just my opinion..... Mark

MarcusG

There isn't anything more they could do than replace the entire engine to definitively solve the engine fire problem. That's whether they truly diagnosed the exact problem or not. Maybe I'm sipping Cool-Aid as well but there is something that makes me think that with so much money and risk to human life on the line that they had no choice. I'd like to think there was a run of engines that were assembled with or by different people and they just don't know for certain what caused the fires since as we know there are hundreds of different parts that make up the whole. There are too many cars out there with thousands of brutal street/track miles on them with zero issues whatsoever. If ALL the motors were assembled with ALL identical parts from suppliers etc then you replace all and that's that.

I just pray to God there isn't a single fire with any of the cars that get their engine replaced. That would be awful.

MarcusG

^^^^ There you go.

A bit of what I just said but you said it first and more importantly coming from a fellow with a technically proficient background. Translation. You used bigger words.

996FLT6

yes AP is torqueing every bolt to exact specs. It's his pride and joy or utter failure. Where is he with this debacle? Mike

speedoflight

AP is torqueing.

silverrules

Stack up tolerance is always an engineer nightmare. I see it ALL the time. Nothing new here. It just needs tweaking folks. so many parts fit together and the stack up analysis is the best guess estimate by engineers. This one caught fire and got everyone attention. I deal with this on routine basis but people don't see it in the news. They are replacing the damn thing is all I care. Let them do their job.

speedoflight

people shouldn't be so hung up on engine replacement. tuners do it all the time. now after engine replacement still catches fire then i'd be very worried...

996FLT6

Lmao. I guess torquing and twerking is same thing with 991 gt3 motors- all *** no *****. Mike