Stop Sale?
03-18-2014 | 03:53 PM
#2881
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,129
Likes: 280
From: North Bay Area, CA
Had (wet) dreams or nightmares?
Not at all Mike, just the passion and love about a car that was cultivated one race success one track dependable GT3 at the time. Maybe in your case it was cultivated in just a few short test miles that I for one have not yet experienced. You know I want to badly just did not want to put that much money at risk to try her without making sure she's disease free, but you of course could be much wiser than us 991GT3 virgins. I will have to wait to deflower one for sure.
The hunt is exciting, I'm playing hard to get and she will eventually put out on my terms.
And since when does love have to make sense right?
Not at all Mike, just the passion and love about a car that was cultivated one race success one track dependable GT3 at the time. Maybe in your case it was cultivated in just a few short test miles that I for one have not yet experienced. You know I want to badly just did not want to put that much money at risk to try her without making sure she's disease free, but you of course could be much wiser than us 991GT3 virgins. I will have to wait to deflower one for sure.
The hunt is exciting, I'm playing hard to get and she will eventually put out on my terms.
And since when does love have to make sense right?
03-18-2014 | 03:59 PM
#2882
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 8
From: SoCal
Jason -- They've got to check / change fluids, battery, etc...right?!?! And an allowance for us to have the detailer of our choice take care of the paint??? That's ridiculous.
03-18-2014 | 04:04 PM
#2883
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 18
From: Vancouver, WA
By the way I really like this gold color on car shown in picture. Mark
03-18-2014 | 04:09 PM
#2884
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2 points, all just my opinion based on past experiences in other industries:
Q) why are people with upcoming delivery dates being told everything is on track?
A) multiple reasons...1)because they have to or people may start cancelling. 2) think about it...this is such a HUGE decision by the PAG board that there are probably VERY FEW people that really know exactly what is going on. So in reality, the answer the person at the other end of the phone gives is the ONLY answer they know. Since there is no official timeline, they are not authorized to give you anything more, even if there was anything more to give...which at this point there isn't. Besides, it IS on track right now. The engine is one of the last things to go into the car. At the factory, it takes a very short time. Move a 'new' engine vs. an 'old' engine into place and all is good. Minimal delay...
Q) why are they being so secretive?
A) my guess is that rubbaman is 100% correct. Like it or not, Porsche is a very big company, owned by a MUCH MUCH larger company. Can you imagine the time and effort it takes to get through all the red tape, meetings, calls, discussions, board members, etc. to make the decision to REPLACE EVERY ENGINE ON 785 of the PREMIER car that the company makes? Think about it for a second....how many of you work for a big company? How long does it take to make a MINOR change in ANYTHING?? This is soooo far out there that I'm sure its involved every lawyer and adviser in PAG and VW, not to mention all the discussion with all the NTSB type commissions WORLDWIDE to discuss solutions. Seriously...the fact that they've done this in a month is truly remarkable. So, while it's frustrating for all of you just waiting, there is no way they could just blurt out this or that without making sure EVERY SINGLE base is covered. Heck to get a simple line on a contract through legal used to take me over a week....
Think about it: 2 cars catch fire. On the surface...not a huge deal that needs addressing. Then someone suggests that something could be wrong. Someone in Marketing or PR says 'hey boss, we may have a problem'. As someone mentioned on this thread, the initial reaction from the Porsche engineering staff is "No way, we don't make cars with problems." Once they realize and accept that maybe there IS a problem, they can't replicate it to figure out a fix.
I'm guessing the only way they figured it out, was to get the burnt cars and trace back what happened. Once they dissemble the engines, they found the problem...but not what caused it I would assume.
Can you imagine the arguing going on between engineering and management??? Wouldn't we all love to be a fly on the wall of THOSE meetings??
In the end, the more I think about it, I applaud and am truly amazed that a company the size of Porsche would make the decision to take such drastic measure as to replace EVERY SINGLE engine. That is the true real life corporate definition of 'leaving no stone unturned'.
Full disclosure...I have no dog in this fight. I do not have one on order, nor do I ever plan to. I drove one of these and as much as they are an amazing car to drive and a marvel of engineering....I can't do the PDK..felt like I was driving a video game...but that has been hashed out long and hard and I won't rehash it. I am a big fan of Porsche - have owned many (currently 3) and very involved with PCA in many capacities. I want them to make this right for the sake of the company and its presence in the sports car world. I feel bad for you guys that are caught up in this, but I hope it all works out in the end...
Q) why are people with upcoming delivery dates being told everything is on track?
A) multiple reasons...1)because they have to or people may start cancelling. 2) think about it...this is such a HUGE decision by the PAG board that there are probably VERY FEW people that really know exactly what is going on. So in reality, the answer the person at the other end of the phone gives is the ONLY answer they know. Since there is no official timeline, they are not authorized to give you anything more, even if there was anything more to give...which at this point there isn't. Besides, it IS on track right now. The engine is one of the last things to go into the car. At the factory, it takes a very short time. Move a 'new' engine vs. an 'old' engine into place and all is good. Minimal delay...
Q) why are they being so secretive?
A) my guess is that rubbaman is 100% correct. Like it or not, Porsche is a very big company, owned by a MUCH MUCH larger company. Can you imagine the time and effort it takes to get through all the red tape, meetings, calls, discussions, board members, etc. to make the decision to REPLACE EVERY ENGINE ON 785 of the PREMIER car that the company makes? Think about it for a second....how many of you work for a big company? How long does it take to make a MINOR change in ANYTHING?? This is soooo far out there that I'm sure its involved every lawyer and adviser in PAG and VW, not to mention all the discussion with all the NTSB type commissions WORLDWIDE to discuss solutions. Seriously...the fact that they've done this in a month is truly remarkable. So, while it's frustrating for all of you just waiting, there is no way they could just blurt out this or that without making sure EVERY SINGLE base is covered. Heck to get a simple line on a contract through legal used to take me over a week....
Think about it: 2 cars catch fire. On the surface...not a huge deal that needs addressing. Then someone suggests that something could be wrong. Someone in Marketing or PR says 'hey boss, we may have a problem'. As someone mentioned on this thread, the initial reaction from the Porsche engineering staff is "No way, we don't make cars with problems." Once they realize and accept that maybe there IS a problem, they can't replicate it to figure out a fix.
I'm guessing the only way they figured it out, was to get the burnt cars and trace back what happened. Once they dissemble the engines, they found the problem...but not what caused it I would assume.
Can you imagine the arguing going on between engineering and management??? Wouldn't we all love to be a fly on the wall of THOSE meetings??
In the end, the more I think about it, I applaud and am truly amazed that a company the size of Porsche would make the decision to take such drastic measure as to replace EVERY SINGLE engine. That is the true real life corporate definition of 'leaving no stone unturned'.
Full disclosure...I have no dog in this fight. I do not have one on order, nor do I ever plan to. I drove one of these and as much as they are an amazing car to drive and a marvel of engineering....I can't do the PDK..felt like I was driving a video game...but that has been hashed out long and hard and I won't rehash it. I am a big fan of Porsche - have owned many (currently 3) and very involved with PCA in many capacities. I want them to make this right for the sake of the company and its presence in the sports car world. I feel bad for you guys that are caught up in this, but I hope it all works out in the end...
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03-18-2014 | 04:18 PM
#2885
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 18
From: Vancouver, WA
2 points, all just my opinion based on past experiences in other industries:
Q) why are people with upcoming delivery dates being told everything is on track?
A) multiple reasons...1)because they have to or people may start cancelling. 2) think about it...this is such a HUGE decision by the PAG board that there are probably VERY FEW people that really know exactly what is going on. So in reality, the answer the person at the other end of the phone gives is the ONLY answer they know. Since there is no official timeline, they are not authorized to give you anything more, even if there was anything more to give...which at this point there isn't. Besides, it IS on track right now. The engine is one of the last things to go into the car. At the factory, it takes a very short time. Move a 'new' engine vs. an 'old' engine into place and all is good. Minimal delay...
Q) why are they being so secretive?
A) my guess is that rubbaman is 100% correct. Like it or not, Porsche is a very big company, owned by a MUCH MUCH larger company. Can you imagine the time and effort it takes to get through all the red tape, meetings, calls, discussions, board members, etc. to make the decision to REPLACE EVERY ENGINE ON 785 of the PREMIER car that the company makes? Think about it for a second....how many of you work for a big company? How long does it take to make a MINOR change in ANYTHING?? This is soooo far out there that I'm sure its involved every lawyer and adviser in PAG and VW, not to mention all the discussion with all the NTSB type commissions WORLDWIDE to discuss solutions. Seriously...the fact that they've done this in a month is truly remarkable. So, while it's frustrating for all of you just waiting, there is no way they could just blurt out this or that without making sure EVERY SINGLE base is covered. Heck to get a simple line on a contract through legal used to take me over a week....
Think about it: 2 cars catch fire. On the surface...not a huge deal that needs addressing. Then someone suggests that something could be wrong. Someone in Marketing or PR says 'hey boss, we may have a problem'. As someone mentioned on this thread, the initial reaction from the Porsche engineering staff is "No way, we don't make cars with problems." Once they realize and accept that maybe there IS a problem, they can't replicate it to figure out a fix.
I'm guessing the only way they figured it out, was to get the burnt cars and trace back what happened. Once they dissemble the engines, they found the problem...but not what caused it I would assume.
Can you imagine the arguing going on between engineering and management??? Wouldn't we all love to be a fly on the wall of THOSE meetings??
In the end, the more I think about it, I applaud and am truly amazed that a company the size of Porsche would make the decision to take such drastic measure as to replace EVERY SINGLE engine. That is the true real life corporate definition of 'leaving no stone unturned'.
Full disclosure...I have no dog in this fight. I do not have one on order, nor do I ever plan to. I drove one of these and as much as they are an amazing car to drive and a marvel of engineering....I can't do the PDK..felt like I was driving a video game...but that has been hashed out long and hard and I won't rehash it. I am a big fan of Porsche - have owned many (currently 3) and very involved with PCA in many capacities. I want them to make this right for the sake of the company and its presence in the sports car world. I feel bad for you guys that are caught up in this, but I hope it all works out in the end...
Q) why are people with upcoming delivery dates being told everything is on track?
A) multiple reasons...1)because they have to or people may start cancelling. 2) think about it...this is such a HUGE decision by the PAG board that there are probably VERY FEW people that really know exactly what is going on. So in reality, the answer the person at the other end of the phone gives is the ONLY answer they know. Since there is no official timeline, they are not authorized to give you anything more, even if there was anything more to give...which at this point there isn't. Besides, it IS on track right now. The engine is one of the last things to go into the car. At the factory, it takes a very short time. Move a 'new' engine vs. an 'old' engine into place and all is good. Minimal delay...
Q) why are they being so secretive?
A) my guess is that rubbaman is 100% correct. Like it or not, Porsche is a very big company, owned by a MUCH MUCH larger company. Can you imagine the time and effort it takes to get through all the red tape, meetings, calls, discussions, board members, etc. to make the decision to REPLACE EVERY ENGINE ON 785 of the PREMIER car that the company makes? Think about it for a second....how many of you work for a big company? How long does it take to make a MINOR change in ANYTHING?? This is soooo far out there that I'm sure its involved every lawyer and adviser in PAG and VW, not to mention all the discussion with all the NTSB type commissions WORLDWIDE to discuss solutions. Seriously...the fact that they've done this in a month is truly remarkable. So, while it's frustrating for all of you just waiting, there is no way they could just blurt out this or that without making sure EVERY SINGLE base is covered. Heck to get a simple line on a contract through legal used to take me over a week....
Think about it: 2 cars catch fire. On the surface...not a huge deal that needs addressing. Then someone suggests that something could be wrong. Someone in Marketing or PR says 'hey boss, we may have a problem'. As someone mentioned on this thread, the initial reaction from the Porsche engineering staff is "No way, we don't make cars with problems." Once they realize and accept that maybe there IS a problem, they can't replicate it to figure out a fix.
I'm guessing the only way they figured it out, was to get the burnt cars and trace back what happened. Once they dissemble the engines, they found the problem...but not what caused it I would assume.
Can you imagine the arguing going on between engineering and management??? Wouldn't we all love to be a fly on the wall of THOSE meetings??
In the end, the more I think about it, I applaud and am truly amazed that a company the size of Porsche would make the decision to take such drastic measure as to replace EVERY SINGLE engine. That is the true real life corporate definition of 'leaving no stone unturned'.
Full disclosure...I have no dog in this fight. I do not have one on order, nor do I ever plan to. I drove one of these and as much as they are an amazing car to drive and a marvel of engineering....I can't do the PDK..felt like I was driving a video game...but that has been hashed out long and hard and I won't rehash it. I am a big fan of Porsche - have owned many (currently 3) and very involved with PCA in many capacities. I want them to make this right for the sake of the company and its presence in the sports car world. I feel bad for you guys that are caught up in this, but I hope it all works out in the end...
well put and great reflection, and have to agree with most of what you said. However it is hard not to feel disappointed after paying $150K for the car and not able to drive it, and of no fault of our own, and not mentioning many of us got rid of our dedicated track cars for this car and now our track plans are ruined. But I have to agree it is remarkable what Porsche has done or what is able to accomplish in a very short time and the drastic corrective measures they are taking to correct the problem. Mark
03-18-2014 | 04:23 PM
#2886
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 9,995
Likes: 393
From: Ny
If I want to sound funny and lighten the atmosphere up a bit,I'd say the Corporate final conclusion after one hell of a thorough investigation alongside Engineering was that all factory torque wrenches need to be recalibrated. 
03-18-2014 | 04:31 PM
#2887
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From: Charlotte, NC
+1
well put and great reflection, and have to agree with most of what you said. However it is hard not to feel disappointed after paying $150K for the car and not able to drive it, and of no fault of our own, and not mentioning many of us got rid of our dedicated track cars for this car and now our track plans are ruined. But I have to agree it is remarkable what Porsche has done or what is able to accomplish in a very short time and the drastic corrective measures they are taking to correct the problem. Mark
well put and great reflection, and have to agree with most of what you said. However it is hard not to feel disappointed after paying $150K for the car and not able to drive it, and of no fault of our own, and not mentioning many of us got rid of our dedicated track cars for this car and now our track plans are ruined. But I have to agree it is remarkable what Porsche has done or what is able to accomplish in a very short time and the drastic corrective measures they are taking to correct the problem. Mark
In a not nearly the same scenario but related...I can sympathize with your frustration of your track plans being ruined: my dedicated track car (light blue 914 in my avatar) has been having issues for the past year - spinning bearings, broken rod (must have the same bolts that PAG is using...
- we think we've figured out the problem, and should have had the car back together and running in January...except the supplier of the custom worked crank has delayed it's delivery by 3 months now...sidelining me since November....This is supposed to be our FUN...right??
03-18-2014 | 04:32 PM
#2888
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 18
From: Vancouver, WA
You may not be far from the truth. I honestly don't believe it is a supply issue nor a design issue. With the latest cad and transient analysis tools, it is hard to imagine their engineers under designed the bolt or the connecting rod interface. They have spent thousands of ours verifying their design on test benches and through modeling and would have caught a bad design. I am convinced it is probably has to do with torque specification / procedure / calibration. So you may not be far from the truth!! Mark
03-18-2014 | 04:43 PM
#2890
Technical Guru
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,138
Likes: 112
From: USVI
The VW/Audi/Porsche port of entry @ Davisville.
It looks even better in person! I don't think I could drive around in a gold Porsche but I definitely liked the color.
It looks even better in person! I don't think I could drive around in a gold Porsche but I definitely liked the color.
03-18-2014 | 05:02 PM
#2893
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 25,842
Likes: 3,651
From: S.F Bay Area
You may not be far from the truth. I honestly don't believe it is a supply issue nor a design issue. With the latest cad and transient analysis tools, it is hard to imagine their engineers under designed the bolt or the connecting rod interface. They have spent thousands of ours verifying their design on test benches and through modeling and would have caught a bad design. I am convinced it is probably has to do with torque specification / procedure / calibration. So you may not be far from the truth!! Mark
03-18-2014 | 05:10 PM
#2895
Pro
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 710
Likes: 1
From: Cumming Ga
Ok verdict : some bad rods and bolts and everyone gets a new motor ....Come on does this make everyone happy now? Oh forgot... kick in that you can drive a car like a Turbo until yours is finished...oh happy day, Problem Solved!