Stop Sale?
03-20-2014, 09:25 AM
#3031
Burning Brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him absolutely nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. There are others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him absolutely nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. There are others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
03-20-2014, 09:39 AM
#3032
Drifting
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. Others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. Others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
excellent touché
03-20-2014, 09:41 AM
#3033
Rennlist Member
Oh well, all has been said and done now... The facts have vindicated Aamersa, that's for sure...
03-20-2014, 10:15 AM
#3035
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<sigh> OK fine, 125 hours. either way, that's less than 10,000 miles. You missed my point....
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03-20-2014, 10:58 AM
#3036
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I had a chat with a buddy of mine last night who's a mechanic at the local dealer. He's very knowledgeable, probably one of the best Porsche mechanics in Charlotte and a true MECHANIC...engine and tranny builds are no big deal to him.
He said that rod bolt failures are way more common than you would think. Lots of the race engine builders have issues with them, like the big teams. Surprisingly, so do some of the race engines that come directly from Porsche (and other manufacturers). Few years back, one of the Grand Am teams went through 3 motors at Daytona 24 in practices before one let go 4 hours into the actual race...each time, rod bolt failure. Thing is, we never hear about this stuff, these are RACE engines, stuff happens...
Technically, what you guys are getting is as close to a full blown race engine as you can 'street legally' get. So, as he said, you can't expect it to be as "perfect" and trouble free as a normal street car. It's not normal. I pushes the boundries because that's what you (we) all want. You can't have both. You want loads of hp? You want 9k RPM? You want perfection in driving? Sure...but at what cost?
Any of you ever drive a Porsche cup car? My understanding is that is as close to the perfection of the drive as you get in the 991GT3 - instant power, exceptional handling, lightning fast shift response, etc. but with creature comforts, nice interior, softer suspension, more 'quiet' etc....But....cup engines are meant to be rebuilt after 50 hours. Can't do that for street cars, so....
You are buying a street legal race car. Race cars have mechanical failures, get used to it....
He said that rod bolt failures are way more common than you would think. Lots of the race engine builders have issues with them, like the big teams. Surprisingly, so do some of the race engines that come directly from Porsche (and other manufacturers). Few years back, one of the Grand Am teams went through 3 motors at Daytona 24 in practices before one let go 4 hours into the actual race...each time, rod bolt failure. Thing is, we never hear about this stuff, these are RACE engines, stuff happens...
Technically, what you guys are getting is as close to a full blown race engine as you can 'street legally' get. So, as he said, you can't expect it to be as "perfect" and trouble free as a normal street car. It's not normal. I pushes the boundries because that's what you (we) all want. You can't have both. You want loads of hp? You want 9k RPM? You want perfection in driving? Sure...but at what cost?
Any of you ever drive a Porsche cup car? My understanding is that is as close to the perfection of the drive as you get in the 991GT3 - instant power, exceptional handling, lightning fast shift response, etc. but with creature comforts, nice interior, softer suspension, more 'quiet' etc....But....cup engines are meant to be rebuilt after 50 hours. Can't do that for street cars, so....
You are buying a street legal race car. Race cars have mechanical failures, get used to it....
03-20-2014, 11:01 AM
#3037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him absolutely nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. There are others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
Originally Posted by tmg57 View Post
I started reading this thread from the beginning to refresh my memory of the early days of this issue. I believe that aamersa's post (#179 on 2/14) was the first to get close to the right answer. He caught a lot of flak over it.
Quote:
Melting con rod bearings? Really?
You know that's the funny thing about the RL.... you can love it and hate it at the same time. You get the good with the bad, the astute and the insane, the engineer and the idiot, the mortals and the immortals. But one thing is for sure, you throw all the posts together and sort through what you want and (I can only speak for myself) there is some real valuable information in there! Think about the poor dude who doesn't know about this resource. He's listening to his dealer tell him absolutely nothing but the letter that came out. There were people who panicked and threw in the towel based on the info on this thread. There are others like me who are staying the course. Time will tell, but I personally can't wait to have this car. Worts and all.
03-20-2014, 11:02 AM
#3038
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03-20-2014, 11:36 AM
#3039
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03-20-2014, 11:45 AM
#3040
I do not have a horse in this game, but, agree. We are talking simple old connecting rod, cap, bearing bolt/nut stuff here... how much is there to really invent? The communication referred to loose, but nothing exactly specific on anything breaking...or that a connecting rod hold sheered...etc. I thought that this part of the engine assembly was done with human intervention. Is it not possible that it could be as-simple-as human error on assembly?
03-20-2014, 11:50 AM
#3041
Rennlist Member
I had a chat with a buddy of mine last night who's a mechanic at the local dealer. He's very knowledgeable, probably one of the best Porsche mechanics in Charlotte and a true MECHANIC...engine and tranny builds are no big deal to him.
He said that rod bolt failures are way more common than you would think. Lots of the race engine builders have issues with them, like the big teams. Surprisingly, so do some of the race engines that come directly from Porsche (and other manufacturers). Few years back, one of the Grand Am teams went through 3 motors at Daytona 24 in practices before one let go 4 hours into the actual race...each time, rod bolt failure. Thing is, we never hear about this stuff, these are RACE engines, stuff happens...
Technically, what you guys are getting is as close to a full blown race engine as you can 'street legally' get. So, as he said, you can't expect it to be as "perfect" and trouble free as a normal street car. It's not normal. I pushes the boundries because that's what you (we) all want. You can't have both. You want loads of hp? You want 9k RPM? You want perfection in driving? Sure...but at what cost?
Any of you ever drive a Porsche cup car? My understanding is that is as close to the perfection of the drive as you get in the 991GT3 - instant power, exceptional handling, lightning fast shift response, etc. but with creature comforts, nice interior, softer suspension, more 'quiet' etc....But....cup engines are meant to be rebuilt after 50 hours. Can't do that for street cars, so....
You are buying a street legal race car. Race cars have mechanical failures, get used to it....
He said that rod bolt failures are way more common than you would think. Lots of the race engine builders have issues with them, like the big teams. Surprisingly, so do some of the race engines that come directly from Porsche (and other manufacturers). Few years back, one of the Grand Am teams went through 3 motors at Daytona 24 in practices before one let go 4 hours into the actual race...each time, rod bolt failure. Thing is, we never hear about this stuff, these are RACE engines, stuff happens...
Technically, what you guys are getting is as close to a full blown race engine as you can 'street legally' get. So, as he said, you can't expect it to be as "perfect" and trouble free as a normal street car. It's not normal. I pushes the boundries because that's what you (we) all want. You can't have both. You want loads of hp? You want 9k RPM? You want perfection in driving? Sure...but at what cost?
Any of you ever drive a Porsche cup car? My understanding is that is as close to the perfection of the drive as you get in the 991GT3 - instant power, exceptional handling, lightning fast shift response, etc. but with creature comforts, nice interior, softer suspension, more 'quiet' etc....But....cup engines are meant to be rebuilt after 50 hours. Can't do that for street cars, so....
You are buying a street legal race car. Race cars have mechanical failures, get used to it....
03-20-2014, 11:55 AM
#3042
Nordschleife Master
I had a chat with a buddy of mine last night who's a mechanic at the local dealer. He's very knowledgeable, probably one of the best Porsche mechanics in Charlotte and a true MECHANIC...engine and tranny builds are no big deal to him. He said that rod bolt failures are way more common than you would think. Lots of the race engine builders have issues with them, like the big teams. Surprisingly, so do some of the race engines that come directly from Porsche (and other manufacturers). Few years back, one of the Grand Am teams went through 3 motors at Daytona 24 in practices before one let go 4 hours into the actual race...each time, rod bolt failure. Thing is, we never hear about this stuff, these are RACE engines, stuff happens... Technically, what you guys are getting is as close to a full blown race engine as you can 'street legally' get. So, as he said, you can't expect it to be as "perfect" and trouble free as a normal street car. It's not normal. I pushes the boundries because that's what you (we) all want. You can't have both. You want loads of hp? You want 9k RPM? You want perfection in driving? Sure...but at what cost? Any of you ever drive a Porsche cup car? My understanding is that is as close to the perfection of the drive as you get in the 991GT3 - instant power, exceptional handling, lightning fast shift response, etc. but with creature comforts, nice interior, softer suspension, more 'quiet' etc....But....cup engines are meant to be rebuilt after 50 hours. Can't do that for street cars, so.... You are buying a street legal race car. Race cars have mechanical failures, get used to it....
Porsche's goal was to build a car that is even more comfortable to drive on the street than its previous generations(think of the 996GT3,then the 997GT3 etc). So they've built this car as a whole package-engine included. How is " pushing the envelope " by making a " racing engine " is supposed to be making owners comfortable,when it failed miserably? I don't remember reading about any Mezger that needed a rebuilt after 300 miles...
So " pushing the boundaries " and needing a rebuilt after 50hrs is not what Porsche had in mind for a street car,but reliability and usability.
03-20-2014, 12:07 PM
#3043
I think this whole situation boils down to:
1. Naysayers have support for their position to vote with their pocket books and not buy the car, as was their intention. Not happy to see adopters suffer, but happy that they remained strong in their stance.
2. Adopters have a chance to walk or take a bet and take the car, supported by either their first hand experience with the car or the litany of positive reviews--and to say that the reviews have been "good" is drastic understatement.
Adopters are the ones who were / are put through the wringer. Only time will tell if the pain was worth it. I'm in that camp. I think to will be worth it, but could be wrong. Ask me in a couple of years.
For now, IMO, we've beaten the topic of the 991 GT3--the engine, the gearbox, etc. to death.
1. Naysayers have support for their position to vote with their pocket books and not buy the car, as was their intention. Not happy to see adopters suffer, but happy that they remained strong in their stance.
2. Adopters have a chance to walk or take a bet and take the car, supported by either their first hand experience with the car or the litany of positive reviews--and to say that the reviews have been "good" is drastic understatement.
Adopters are the ones who were / are put through the wringer. Only time will tell if the pain was worth it. I'm in that camp. I think to will be worth it, but could be wrong. Ask me in a couple of years.
For now, IMO, we've beaten the topic of the 991 GT3--the engine, the gearbox, etc. to death.
03-20-2014, 12:09 PM
#3044
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But to clarify my point, the only difference between a Cup motor and street GT3 motor that used it (pre-991) was lack of variocam and side mufflers. Rebuild and maintenance schedules would be the same if both engines were used in a like manner. Varying them yields the same risks.
03-20-2014, 12:22 PM
#3045
Rennlist Member
I guess so.
But to clarify my point, the only difference between a Cup motor and street GT3 motor that used it (pre-991) was lack of variocam and side mufflers. Rebuild and maintenance schedules would be the same if both engines were used in a like manner. Varying them yields the same risks.
But to clarify my point, the only difference between a Cup motor and street GT3 motor that used it (pre-991) was lack of variocam and side mufflers. Rebuild and maintenance schedules would be the same if both engines were used in a like manner. Varying them yields the same risks.