Stop Sale?
03-17-2014, 05:04 PM
#2671
Race Director
New engines for all.....well that was not unexpected.
I noted a number of concerns by posters about individual compensation but my reading of the letter is that actual compensation is not even discussed. What was said was that "your personal contact person will make contact with you within the next days to discuss individual solutions to bridge the gap until you are reunited with your Porsche 911 GT3". I read that to mean that we will be given individual attention with regard to loaner cars or other arrangements. Since the time frame to repair seems unfortunately open ended I can understand why it would be to early to discuss actual monetary compensation. When it is discussed it will come through PAG or PCNA, not local dealers. My 2 cents; I guess we'll find out soon enough.
I'm disappointed but not too surprised that this will take a while to resolve. As someone who already owns the car expediency would be nice but it's far more important to me that the repair solution is thoroughly tested and the fix is permanent. I honestly don't see what will be accomplished by a protest drive unless you believe that Porsche is dragging their feet on the fix, which is in no one's best interest, least of all Porsche's.
It's a car, it will get fixed, life goes on....
I noted a number of concerns by posters about individual compensation but my reading of the letter is that actual compensation is not even discussed. What was said was that "your personal contact person will make contact with you within the next days to discuss individual solutions to bridge the gap until you are reunited with your Porsche 911 GT3". I read that to mean that we will be given individual attention with regard to loaner cars or other arrangements. Since the time frame to repair seems unfortunately open ended I can understand why it would be to early to discuss actual monetary compensation. When it is discussed it will come through PAG or PCNA, not local dealers. My 2 cents; I guess we'll find out soon enough.
I'm disappointed but not too surprised that this will take a while to resolve. As someone who already owns the car expediency would be nice but it's far more important to me that the repair solution is thoroughly tested and the fix is permanent. I honestly don't see what will be accomplished by a protest drive unless you believe that Porsche is dragging their feet on the fix, which is in no one's best interest, least of all Porsche's.
It's a car, it will get fixed, life goes on....
03-17-2014, 05:05 PM
#2672
Two things. My car has been on hold at V270 Since 2/14 and was one month ahead of schedule. If it was on schedule completing date was 3/14. As of Friday it has not moved since 2/14. I see no reason why the production line would not move past V270 with defective engine's being used.
Second: Anyone in my situation (car almost completed but still at Factory) have received anything from PNA or the dealer like a loaner car or even an offer of one? I have asked and gotten ZERO.
Way to treat us. I sold a Ferrari in the Fall in anticipation of this car. Yes I was the Dumb A** thinking Volkswagen can build such an engine.
Second: Anyone in my situation (car almost completed but still at Factory) have received anything from PNA or the dealer like a loaner car or even an offer of one? I have asked and gotten ZERO.
Way to treat us. I sold a Ferrari in the Fall in anticipation of this car. Yes I was the Dumb A** thinking Volkswagen can build such an engine.
03-17-2014, 05:15 PM
#2673
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas nv
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New engines for all.....well that was not unexpected.
I noted a number of concerns by posters about individual compensation but my reading of the letter is that actual compensation is not even discussed. What was said was that "your personal contact person will make contact with you within the next days to discuss individual solutions to bridge the gap until you are reunited with your Porsche 911 GT3". I read that to mean that we will be given individual attention with regard to loaner cars or other arrangements. Since the time frame to repair seems unfortunately open ended I can understand why it would be to early to discuss actual monetary compensation. When it is discussed it will come through PAG or PCNA, not local dealers. My 2 cents; I guess we'll find out soon enough.
I'm disappointed but not too surprised that this will take a while to resolve. As someone who already owns the car expediency would be nice but it's far more important to me that the repair solution is thoroughly tested and the fix is permanent. I honestly don't see what will be accomplished by a protest drive unless you believe that Porsche is dragging their feet on the fix, which is in no one's best interest, least of all Porsche's.
It's a car, it will get fixed, life goes on....
I noted a number of concerns by posters about individual compensation but my reading of the letter is that actual compensation is not even discussed. What was said was that "your personal contact person will make contact with you within the next days to discuss individual solutions to bridge the gap until you are reunited with your Porsche 911 GT3". I read that to mean that we will be given individual attention with regard to loaner cars or other arrangements. Since the time frame to repair seems unfortunately open ended I can understand why it would be to early to discuss actual monetary compensation. When it is discussed it will come through PAG or PCNA, not local dealers. My 2 cents; I guess we'll find out soon enough.
I'm disappointed but not too surprised that this will take a while to resolve. As someone who already owns the car expediency would be nice but it's far more important to me that the repair solution is thoroughly tested and the fix is permanent. I honestly don't see what will be accomplished by a protest drive unless you believe that Porsche is dragging their feet on the fix, which is in no one's best interest, least of all Porsche's.
It's a car, it will get fixed, life goes on....
Some might have a bunch of nice extra Ferraris to drive laying around in the garage., but I don't and really need something cool to drive NOW to hold me over from going Crazy.. My GT3 has been in the garage for 3-4 weeks.. and now the weather is good.
PHP Code:
GT3 Customer Concierge
Porsche Cars North America, Inc.
980 Hammond Drive, Suite 1000
Atlanta, GA 30328
03-17-2014, 05:37 PM
#2674
Rennlist Member
If this is all Porsche and their lawyers were planning to say today (March 17th), I am just wondering why this communication couldn't have been sent out to 991 gt3 owners last week? Or even earlier, when Macca heard about the engine swap solution from his source in Zuffenhausen or Weissach? That would have help stopped, or slow down a bit, the bleeding from this PR debacle for Porsche. It is still puzzling why they waited this long, when the vague generalities found in the content of this missive today were known weeks ago & could have been as easily communicated to the gt3 owners & deposit holders that much earlier!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
I'm probably just helping Porsche here because the way I see it they are just buying time and waiting for things to shake out while they work on the new engines getting to the dealers.
In the meanwhile they are hoping and encouraging you to bring back the car without specifically advertising it, so they can fix it don't have to pay for compensation and just get rid of the car later as CPO.
Maybe not even with a new engine just the engine fixed.
Anyone showing up at a dealer today gets a check back no questions asked.
The customers hanging in there will be the most expensive and cumbersome to deal with, so just send idiot letter after idiot letter and fingers crossed that most will come throw the towel and bring the car back..
Sooner or later everyone who already has paid for the car will see this and understand that next year with a bunch of GT3's with "manufacturers buy back" carfaxes and CPO's on the market is not going to be good for the value of their GT3.
There wont be enough cash compensation or extended warranties to make up for it.
Just take a 6 month brake, get your money back and if you still trust Porsche get a 2015 with the right seats or RS to differentiate between the 2014's...
03-17-2014, 05:43 PM
#2675
Bluehinder, the only reason I am suggesting a loaner is this, I and others may have as well, sold a car anticipating on getting the GT3 for spring and summer and was provided a expected delivery date. Now that Porsche can not live up to their end with no fault due to anyone of us, I think it would be only appropriate to offer a loaner until your ordered GT3 was ready. I knew in advance that it would take months past the expected delivery date, I would not have sold my Ferrari and used it this spring and summer. That's all I am saying. I do agree the people that have their cars and paid for them should get whatever car they want from Porsche and Porsche should give it to them.
03-17-2014, 05:52 PM
#2676
If I remember correctly, the 991 GT3 original conrod was not made of Ti. The change to Ti (like is used in 991 Turbo) was the last change to address the issue with the press/test car (not sure which magazine). Therfore, no sufficient testing time allowed to ensure the reliability of the changed in high RPM, harmonic, etc (versus Turbo lower RPM). So, it seem like Porsche took the assumption that the change was minor enough to continue with the upgarde to Ti rod (not sure what bolt material was used, hopefully Ti as well as otherwise, the temperature coef will not be the same). For now, they want to make sure the assembly is tested per the original test plan (as normally what they do), not taking any chances.
03-17-2014, 05:53 PM
#2677
Drifting
True, but I would still be concerned that the "new" bolts still might not be the "right" bolts. I would want to see some time on the engines with new bolts at high rpms before I would be convinced. Of course, you guys with the delivered GT3's might not have much choice but to accept the new engine and hope for the best. BMW engineers kept telling M3 owners that they had the connecting rod bearing problem solved, when in fact it took them about two full years of production to finally sort it all out.
03-17-2014, 06:00 PM
#2678
I'm sorry, but this is how I'm reading the core of their latest statement:
1. "At Porsche we are rigorous when implementing an engineering solution, therefore, after the successful testing and validation we will be installing new engines with optimized piston rod screw connections in all 2014 Porsche 911 GT3 vehicles." - the testing and validation is not yet completed.
2. "Due to the complexity of the necessary arrangement, we are currently unable to provide you with a specific workshop date for your Porsche 911 GT3. We will be arranging an appointment with you individually, as soon as the logistics planning is finalized." - (Also due to the above, I reckon) we have no clue yet when we could make an appointment to do your car's engine transplant.
3. "We will be providing you with additional information within the next three weeks." - at the end of 3 weeks, we will send you a new update. Or maybe a bit later, as before. And that might still not contain details on when we will actually be able to fix your car. Let alone when you'll be able to drive your car(s) again.
It's very simple: I only want a rough-cut but realistic, estimate (+/- 2 weeks, no problem) when they expect I will get my car back. Is that really so difficult? I think TRAKCAR might be onto something here, they might be purposely vague to get more people to give up and give their cars back for a refund, since that'll might minimize their out-of-pocket.
1. "At Porsche we are rigorous when implementing an engineering solution, therefore, after the successful testing and validation we will be installing new engines with optimized piston rod screw connections in all 2014 Porsche 911 GT3 vehicles." - the testing and validation is not yet completed.
2. "Due to the complexity of the necessary arrangement, we are currently unable to provide you with a specific workshop date for your Porsche 911 GT3. We will be arranging an appointment with you individually, as soon as the logistics planning is finalized." - (Also due to the above, I reckon) we have no clue yet when we could make an appointment to do your car's engine transplant.
3. "We will be providing you with additional information within the next three weeks." - at the end of 3 weeks, we will send you a new update. Or maybe a bit later, as before. And that might still not contain details on when we will actually be able to fix your car. Let alone when you'll be able to drive your car(s) again.
It's very simple: I only want a rough-cut but realistic, estimate (+/- 2 weeks, no problem) when they expect I will get my car back. Is that really so difficult? I think TRAKCAR might be onto something here, they might be purposely vague to get more people to give up and give their cars back for a refund, since that'll might minimize their out-of-pocket.
03-17-2014, 06:00 PM
#2679
Guy's I'm sorry but give the car back!
I'm probably just helping Porsche here because the way I see it they are just buying time and waiting for things to shake out while they work on the new engines getting to the dealers.
In the meanwhile they are hoping and encouraging you to bring back the car without specifically advertising it, so they can fix it don't have to pay for compensation and just get rid of the car later as CPO.
Maybe not even with a new engine just the engine fixed.
Anyone showing up at a dealer today gets a check back no questions asked.
The customers hanging in there will be the most expensive and cumbersome to deal with, so just send idiot letter after idiot letter and fingers crossed that most will come throw the towel and bring the car back..
Sooner or later everyone who already has paid for the car will see this and understand that next year with a bunch of GT3's with "manufacturers buy back" carfaxes and CPO's on the market is not going to be good for the value of their GT3.
There wont be enough cash compensation or extended warranties to make up for it.
Just take a 6 month brake, get your money back and if you still trust Porsche get a 2015 with the right seats or RS to differentiate between the 2014's...
I'm probably just helping Porsche here because the way I see it they are just buying time and waiting for things to shake out while they work on the new engines getting to the dealers.
In the meanwhile they are hoping and encouraging you to bring back the car without specifically advertising it, so they can fix it don't have to pay for compensation and just get rid of the car later as CPO.
Maybe not even with a new engine just the engine fixed.
Anyone showing up at a dealer today gets a check back no questions asked.
The customers hanging in there will be the most expensive and cumbersome to deal with, so just send idiot letter after idiot letter and fingers crossed that most will come throw the towel and bring the car back..
Sooner or later everyone who already has paid for the car will see this and understand that next year with a bunch of GT3's with "manufacturers buy back" carfaxes and CPO's on the market is not going to be good for the value of their GT3.
There wont be enough cash compensation or extended warranties to make up for it.
Just take a 6 month brake, get your money back and if you still trust Porsche get a 2015 with the right seats or RS to differentiate between the 2014's...
03-17-2014, 06:06 PM
#2680
Bluehinder, the only reason I am suggesting a loaner is this, I and others may have as well, sold a car anticipating on getting the GT3 for spring and summer and was provided a expected delivery date. Now that Porsche can not live up to their end with no fault due to anyone of us, I think it would be only appropriate to offer a loaner until your ordered GT3 was ready. I knew in advance that it would take months past the expected delivery date, I would not have sold my Ferrari and used it this spring and summer. That's all I am saying. I do agree the people that have their cars and paid for them should get whatever car they want from Porsche and Porsche should give it to them.
03-17-2014, 06:09 PM
#2681
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas nv
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bluehinder, the only reason I am suggesting a loaner is this, I and others may have as well, sold a car anticipating on getting the GT3 for spring and summer and was provided a expected delivery date. Now that Porsche can not live up to their end with no fault due to anyone of us, I think it would be only appropriate to offer a loaner until your ordered GT3 was ready. I knew in advance that it would take months past the expected delivery date, I would not have sold my Ferrari and used it this spring and summer. That's all I am saying. I do agree the people that have their cars and paid for them should get whatever car they want from Porsche and Porsche should give it to them.
03-17-2014, 06:09 PM
#2682
Nothing new, but Nick Twork simply confirming that the engine swap (as most know) would take about a day...once engines are actually available.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...confirmed.html
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...confirmed.html
03-17-2014, 06:11 PM
#2683
Drifting
Guy's I'm sorry but give the car back!
I'm probably just helping Porsche here because the way I see it they are just buying time and waiting for things to shake out while they work on the new engines getting to the dealers.
In the meanwhile they are hoping and encouraging you to bring back the car without specifically advertising it, so they can fix it don't have to pay for compensation and just get rid of the car later as CPO.
Maybe not even with a new engine just the engine fixed.
Anyone showing up at a dealer today gets a check back no questions asked.
The customers hanging in there will be the most expensive and cumbersome to deal with, so just send idiot letter after idiot letter and fingers crossed that most will come throw the towel and bring the car back..
Sooner or later everyone who already has paid for the car will see this and understand that next year with a bunch of GT3's with "manufacturers buy back" carfaxes and CPO's on the market is not going to be good for the value of their GT3.
There wont be enough cash compensation or extended warranties to make up for it.
Just take a 6 month brake, get your money back and if you still trust Porsche get a 2015 with the right seats or RS to differentiate between the 2014's...
I'm probably just helping Porsche here because the way I see it they are just buying time and waiting for things to shake out while they work on the new engines getting to the dealers.
In the meanwhile they are hoping and encouraging you to bring back the car without specifically advertising it, so they can fix it don't have to pay for compensation and just get rid of the car later as CPO.
Maybe not even with a new engine just the engine fixed.
Anyone showing up at a dealer today gets a check back no questions asked.
The customers hanging in there will be the most expensive and cumbersome to deal with, so just send idiot letter after idiot letter and fingers crossed that most will come throw the towel and bring the car back..
Sooner or later everyone who already has paid for the car will see this and understand that next year with a bunch of GT3's with "manufacturers buy back" carfaxes and CPO's on the market is not going to be good for the value of their GT3.
There wont be enough cash compensation or extended warranties to make up for it.
Just take a 6 month brake, get your money back and if you still trust Porsche get a 2015 with the right seats or RS to differentiate between the 2014's...
shame, i was hoping to see one at thill at spmotorsports next track day outing.
03-17-2014, 06:13 PM
#2684
Instructor
I'm sure I can get my money back plus interest if I leave my brand new but registered car at the dealer. But then what? Factory order a Turbo S? Where I live, that would take 5 months from date of order to date of delivery. I'm guessing my GT3 will get its new engine within 3 months, so I'm still ahead if I do nothing and wait.
Like others, I sold a car (458) expecting to be in my GT3 months ago, but I've got other cars to drive and life goes on. It's certainly taken the shine off the new car experience, but what can you do?
Like others, I sold a car (458) expecting to be in my GT3 months ago, but I've got other cars to drive and life goes on. It's certainly taken the shine off the new car experience, but what can you do?
03-17-2014, 06:14 PM
#2685
Rennlist Member
Bluehinder, the only reason I am suggesting a loaner is this, I and others may have as well, sold a car anticipating on getting the GT3 for spring and summer and was provided a expected delivery date. Now that Porsche can not live up to their end with no fault due to anyone of us, I think it would be only appropriate to offer a loaner until your ordered GT3 was ready. I knew in advance that it would take months past the expected delivery date, I would not have sold my Ferrari and used it this spring and summer. That's all I am saying. I do agree the people that have their cars and paid for them should get whatever car they want from Porsche and Porsche should give it to them.