Voting with your pocketbook?
06-05-2013, 10:50 PM
#16
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I've been following - and enjoying - this 991 GT3 discussion since it started back in the 997 GT2/GT3 forum - and whew there are some great personalities here! Probably time to make a comment on the above topic, you can tell I don't post too much.
I am very much intrigued by the engineering philosophy of the 991 GT3's PDK-S, not so much with the other stuff (I may be wrong with the RWS, it may turn out to be very intriguing too). Yet I will not buy a 2014 991 GT3 at present; nevertheless, I am extremely grateful to all you early adopters who will buy one and guide us mugwumps (aka those of us who sit on fences) through your pain and joy of the new machines. Thirty plus years ago I ran off-road 4x4 cross terrain racing (better known as mountain dirt roads) throughout the western US but not good enough to make a living at it, measley as it was; today I'm learning asphalt as a new hobby in my 997.2 stock 4S Carrera w PDK through DE's - I'm loving the DE's - but when I'm ready a GT3 is in my future. As noted above, I'm intrigued by the PDK-S (versus standard PDK) but really want to hear and learn about it in GT3 type operations first - before I blow a chunk of the retirement fund and have to explain that to my wife. So I'm probably a buyer in 2015+ and depending on the verdict I'll be in the market for either a PDK-S 991 or a manual 997.2 GT3.
Oh and by the way, it isn't that hard to drink coffe and shift while driving to work -- I spilled a few cups when cresting a ridge or when the back end kicked out on some mud, but eventually was able to drink more than I wore.
I am very much intrigued by the engineering philosophy of the 991 GT3's PDK-S, not so much with the other stuff (I may be wrong with the RWS, it may turn out to be very intriguing too). Yet I will not buy a 2014 991 GT3 at present; nevertheless, I am extremely grateful to all you early adopters who will buy one and guide us mugwumps (aka those of us who sit on fences) through your pain and joy of the new machines. Thirty plus years ago I ran off-road 4x4 cross terrain racing (better known as mountain dirt roads) throughout the western US but not good enough to make a living at it, measley as it was; today I'm learning asphalt as a new hobby in my 997.2 stock 4S Carrera w PDK through DE's - I'm loving the DE's - but when I'm ready a GT3 is in my future. As noted above, I'm intrigued by the PDK-S (versus standard PDK) but really want to hear and learn about it in GT3 type operations first - before I blow a chunk of the retirement fund and have to explain that to my wife. So I'm probably a buyer in 2015+ and depending on the verdict I'll be in the market for either a PDK-S 991 or a manual 997.2 GT3.
Oh and by the way, it isn't that hard to drink coffe and shift while driving to work -- I spilled a few cups when cresting a ridge or when the back end kicked out on some mud, but eventually was able to drink more than I wore.
06-05-2013, 11:11 PM
#17
I don't even have a cup holder in the RS 
(why oh why)
When I was in the market to choose a new track toy there is one primary reason I went with the RS. It's the closest street legal car with a warranty to an honest race car out there.
I'll buy a new GT3 (I guess maybe RS at this point) when it shares as many significant parts with the Cup car as the 997 did. Otherwise there are a ton of other options that are faster/will be faster. I'm not that concerned about PDK, though having driven SMG and DCT for 10 years, a manual is a nice new hobby to learn to master.
(why oh why)When I was in the market to choose a new track toy there is one primary reason I went with the RS. It's the closest street legal car with a warranty to an honest race car out there.
I'll buy a new GT3 (I guess maybe RS at this point) when it shares as many significant parts with the Cup car as the 997 did. Otherwise there are a ton of other options that are faster/will be faster. I'm not that concerned about PDK, though having driven SMG and DCT for 10 years, a manual is a nice new hobby to learn to master.
06-06-2013, 12:16 AM
#18
Are you a GT3 owner or just complaining? Not being confrontational but it seems like many people that are complaining don't have a GT3 today. Why not if its everything you want manual, Mezger and not as fast as the competition (ok the last part was tongue in cheek). I quite frankly only care for the input of people who are buying one or those that currently have a GT3. If you don't have a deposit or a GT3 you could be someone whining about the good ole days just because. Or you ain't in the market as you don't have a GT3 to begin with.
Can I get a European delivery on a brand-new 997 for next summer? Paying close to MSRP for cars that are nearly 4-years old, about to be out of warranty, and other people have been abusing and farting in sorta sucks.
Some of us younger guys who still have our lives in front of us instead of behind us just would have liked the same opportunity to buy enthusiast cars that others had. That doesn't make our opinions any less valid unless you're the definition of the classic old pompous-douche Porsche owner. Not trying to be confrontational, or claiming that that's you.
06-06-2013, 12:31 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am considering a GT3... which one is the question. To me, the only natural upgrade to Carrera, specially as I am tracking more and more is a GT3, and it would have been great if I could pickup a new one. But, as you can tell, not super jazzed about 991 GT3. I thought some of the 991 shortcomings will be taken care of in GT3, but not so.
All I am saying here though, is that people in general always complain but then at the end want the new toy and buy it and businesses don't bother listening to the complaints as long people vote with their pocketbooks and buy the car they just complained about.
All I am saying here though, is that people in general always complain but then at the end want the new toy and buy it and businesses don't bother listening to the complaints as long people vote with their pocketbooks and buy the car they just complained about.
06-06-2013, 12:37 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I don't even have a cup holder in the RS (why oh why)
When I was in the market to choose a new track toy there is one primary reason I went with the RS. It's the closest street legal car with a warranty to an honest race car out there.
I'll buy a new GT3 (I guess maybe RS at this point) when it shares as many significant parts with the Cup car as the 997 did. Otherwise there are a ton of other options that are faster/will be faster. I'm not that concerned about PDK, though having driven SMG and DCT for 10 years, a manual is a nice new hobby to learn to master.
(why oh why)When I was in the market to choose a new track toy there is one primary reason I went with the RS. It's the closest street legal car with a warranty to an honest race car out there.
I'll buy a new GT3 (I guess maybe RS at this point) when it shares as many significant parts with the Cup car as the 997 did. Otherwise there are a ton of other options that are faster/will be faster. I'm not that concerned about PDK, though having driven SMG and DCT for 10 years, a manual is a nice new hobby to learn to master.
Maybe the RS? or 991.2?
06-06-2013, 01:06 AM
#21
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No I don't have one -- because I've spent the last five years working in Iraq and can't spend more than 35 days a year in the USA. I'm due to finally be done here at the end of the year and would be in the market for a European-delivered 991 if it followed the previous formula.
Can I get a European delivery on a brand-new 997 for next summer? Paying close to MSRP for cars that are nearly 4-years old, about to be out of warranty, and other people have been abusing and farting in sorta sucks.
Some of us younger guys who still have our lives in front of us instead of behind us just would have liked the same opportunity to buy enthusiast cars that others had. That doesn't make our opinions any less valid unless you're the definition of the classic old pompous-douche Porsche owner. Not trying to be confrontational, or claiming that that's you.
Can I get a European delivery on a brand-new 997 for next summer? Paying close to MSRP for cars that are nearly 4-years old, about to be out of warranty, and other people have been abusing and farting in sorta sucks.
Some of us younger guys who still have our lives in front of us instead of behind us just would have liked the same opportunity to buy enthusiast cars that others had. That doesn't make our opinions any less valid unless you're the definition of the classic old pompous-douche Porsche owner. Not trying to be confrontational, or claiming that that's you.
But its all a bit melodramatic. 997 GT3s in near perfect shape that have had only a few queefs are accessible at a major discount of MSRP.
06-06-2013, 01:46 AM
#22
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Absolutely I'd still buy it. You speak of ring times as if they're some "end-all be-all" when it comes to sports cars. As someone who visits the ring a couple times a year I'm expecting a huge drop off in the number of GT3's actually being driven on that circuit for obvious reasons.
If ring times and 0-60 are that important to you -- might I suggest you go purchase a Dodge Viper instead and shave 30 seconds off your "ring time" rather than 10? The fact you consider a 10 second improvement "amazing" actually sounds like you haven't even driven the ring in the first place...The Mezger is clearly capable of 450hp in 3.8l form and Porsche could have went this route and sold every model in the new better-looking body-style with ease. Hell, the RS wouldn't even need any extra but a token 5-10 like they did with the bump in the base Carrera would have been sufficient as well.
The new 991 changes are spot on with the times at Porsche; everything they can do to increase their profits they will. As to what you were really implying with that statement -- rubbish.
Resale values will show the true story in five years -- of that I have zero doubt.
If ring times and 0-60 are that important to you -- might I suggest you go purchase a Dodge Viper instead and shave 30 seconds off your "ring time" rather than 10? The fact you consider a 10 second improvement "amazing" actually sounds like you haven't even driven the ring in the first place...The Mezger is clearly capable of 450hp in 3.8l form and Porsche could have went this route and sold every model in the new better-looking body-style with ease. Hell, the RS wouldn't even need any extra but a token 5-10 like they did with the bump in the base Carrera would have been sufficient as well.
The new 991 changes are spot on with the times at Porsche; everything they can do to increase their profits they will. As to what you were really implying with that statement -- rubbish.
Resale values will show the true story in five years -- of that I have zero doubt.
I personally feel that porsche is spot on because it hits all my buttons. I consider myself as the new wave of consumers that porsche is targeting and they did a fantastic job. I had R8 V10, Aston Martin, and Lambos in mind but they hooked me. I would say that they did there job and what you refer as "rubbish" well.....I have a very good suspicion that you will not be driving a 991 GT3 and never was in the market for one. We'll find out in a few months if Im wrong...better yet a year from now because you don't even have a deposit down.
Congrats on your drives at the ring. I'll send you an award. I forgot to mention that I was recommend to the new GT3 by driverS that I sponsored who may be considered as regulars there. There are tons of folks here that have driven at the ring and are pros and semi pro which I can learn a lot from.. You're not one of them. Your statement of me not having driven on the ring is accurate. I guess I don't know much. I'll just step aside and kick some C4,C5,C6, C5R and C6R tires.
06-06-2013, 01:56 AM
#23
It's too bad Porsche has made us all 13 years old and put us on a deserted island. Amazing how personal this horror is.
06-06-2013, 02:31 AM
#25
I have a very good suspicion that you will not be driving a 991 GT3 and never was in the market for one. We'll find out in a few months if Im wrong...better yet a year from now because you don't even have a deposit down.
Congrats on your drives at the ring. I'll send you an award. I forgot to mention that I was recommend to the new GT3 by driverS that I sponsored who may be considered as regulars there. There are tons of folks here that have driven at the ring and are pros and semi pro which I can learn a lot from.. You're not one of them. Your statement of me not having driven on the ring is accurate. I guess I don't know much. I'll just step aside and kick some C4,C5,C6, C5R and C6R tires.
Congrats on your drives at the ring. I'll send you an award. I forgot to mention that I was recommend to the new GT3 by driverS that I sponsored who may be considered as regulars there. There are tons of folks here that have driven at the ring and are pros and semi pro which I can learn a lot from.. You're not one of them. Your statement of me not having driven on the ring is accurate. I guess I don't know much. I'll just step aside and kick some C4,C5,C6, C5R and C6R tires.
I'll PM you my address for the award -- I'm a huge fan of free stuff.
06-06-2013, 02:32 AM
#26
06-06-2013, 02:37 AM
#27
The GT3 for me is dirt cheap for what it can do and what it stands for. The viper fails in the looks department to me.
I personally feel that porsche is spot on because it hits all my buttons. I consider myself as the new wave of consumers that porsche is targeting and they did a fantastic job. I had R8 V10, Aston Martin, and Lambos in mind but they hooked me.
I personally feel that porsche is spot on because it hits all my buttons. I consider myself as the new wave of consumers that porsche is targeting and they did a fantastic job. I had R8 V10, Aston Martin, and Lambos in mind but they hooked me.
Some of us didn't want a faster Carrera -- we wanted the next GT3 and it no longer exists.
06-06-2013, 02:43 AM
#28
...and all that being said - paying 110k for a low-mileage used GT3 won't provide nearly the overall experience that a 135k new one (the non-PDK equipped and good options sticker price) with a quality interior, full warranty and Porsche factory delivery would.
06-06-2013, 03:18 AM
#29
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You're right. I won't be driving one. You see, clearly unlike you I haven't been looking at Audis and Lambos which don't interest me in the slightest. The information that the 991 GT3 was "unlikely" to follow the cup car formula has been out since the release of the 997 4.0. Why would I put a deposit down on a car I was unlikely to appreciate and would buy production year 2 anyways? I don't need to drive another 9a1 PDK based car to know that more horsepower and better handling via rear wheels that steer won't solve the things I don't like about it.
I'll PM you my address for the award -- I'm a huge fan of free stuff.
I'll PM you my address for the award -- I'm a huge fan of free stuff.
997 GT3 two rows up. Have a nice day.
06-06-2013, 10:49 AM
#30
Race Director
I see a lot of negative and some positive comments about the new GT3.
What I've usually seen though, as much as people complain, when it comes down to it, folks still like a new toy and get excited to get into the new shiny car that has more HP and technology than the last version, despite all of the complaints they'd go to the dealer and buy one!
My question is to the folks who were considering 991 GT3, or are thinking about it, but do not like some aspects of 991 such as no-manual, no bucket seats, no Metzger, heavier car, harder to maintain, 4W steering, etc... would you be willing to VOTE with your pocketbook? Such as holding off a purchase, sending a message to Porsche?
Anything short of that, does not make ANY difference. As long as they sell the car and meet their internal business goals, they don't give a damn to complaints, unless it impacts sales.
So, who's up for the challenge of holding off?
What I've usually seen though, as much as people complain, when it comes down to it, folks still like a new toy and get excited to get into the new shiny car that has more HP and technology than the last version, despite all of the complaints they'd go to the dealer and buy one!
My question is to the folks who were considering 991 GT3, or are thinking about it, but do not like some aspects of 991 such as no-manual, no bucket seats, no Metzger, heavier car, harder to maintain, 4W steering, etc... would you be willing to VOTE with your pocketbook? Such as holding off a purchase, sending a message to Porsche?
Anything short of that, does not make ANY difference. As long as they sell the car and meet their internal business goals, they don't give a damn to complaints, unless it impacts sales.
So, who's up for the challenge of holding off?