itsagoose

What do you like about the GT4?

ipse dixit

I think this is a pretty good review of the Cayman chassis, both the 981 and 718 form. He is far from an "entertainment writer"

paradocs98

2:06 at The Glen in a GT4 is hauling the mail, Bill! RE71Rs or Hoosiers?

itsagoose

Savagegeese is one of my favorite reviewers. Agree they arent entertainers. I've been waiting for them to review a GT3 but no luck so far. Anyone here want to volunteer their car?

xstnte

It might take a while to explain.

This isn't a GT4 vs GT3--they're good for different reasons

I'll start by saying that I've driven both the track and on the street. And if you drive both one after another on the street, it's almost certain that the GT4 will feel "slow". It's a 106 hp difference before factoring in gear ratios and other variables. Even in neutral the GT4's engine seems like it has a massive flywheel while the RS just revs. For sheer explosive acceleration it's not a comparison, at all.

On the track that difference in acceleration is still quite noticeable, mainly on any form of straightaway. The amount of effort the GT4 requires to get to higher speed vs the RS is a thing, but on the track, I'd never call the GT4 slow--it's fast enough. On the back straight at PIR, the GT4 broke 140mph at the last PCA PDE.

But as far as forward and lateral grip, the GT4 is not significantly inferior to the GT3 and might just be near equal. It's not just the tires (I've driven GT4 with Sport Maxx Race 2 and Cup 2 tires), but the chassis is very compliant, reliable and consistent.

I used to drive more neutral, avoiding oversteer, but now prefer to push a lot more. The oversteer state on the GT4 is a lot more fun than the GT3RS. That could be because of the rear-steer and the rear-engine position on the RS.

The chassis on the GT4 feels much more neutral than the RS. The car generally wants to go back to neutral state. That's it's happy place.

The car can be steered with the throttle; you want a little more during a turn? Feather off the throttle and the car rotates. Setup on the throttle mid-turn, countersteer and the car will very predictably rotate. In a slide, if you stay on throttle, steering input is sufficiently precise that subtle inputs will go where you're pointing the car. Also, it has a ton of steering angle.

Even if you don't like to slip/slide, the overall grip on the GT4 is incredibly high. It's an amazingly well-balanced chassis. The point between when you're gripping and when the car lets loose is so consistent that I've been able to improve my car control immensely with just paying attention to what the car is doing. Can I do this in the RS? Yeah, but the rotation and grip are less optimal for my driving style. I will say, like any car, if you don't pay attention or do something stupid, the GT4 is just as susceptible as any other car to spin.

Forward visibility is mostly identical to the RS--same for driver position and ergonomics. Rear visibility suffers a little bit from package and C-pillar design. If you're coming off a 911 the lack of rear "space" might feel confining, it did for me at first--there's a giant engine right behind you.

But you are 100% correct about the acceleration, drama, and sound. However, I know that's by design and not an accident.

pitt911

It is all about personal preference and there is no wrong answer

R35driver

cayman complex.

the caymans could be faster than the 911 range... but porsche chooses not to do that. The original M2 had this issue as well... they stuck a 340i motor in it. Then later on put the actual M3 motor in with the competition package.

Archimedes

Watch this;


and this:

paradocs98

This thread is testament to the effective job Porsche's marketing/planning department has done. The GT4 is a very impressive car, and very rewarding, but it's a car that has been purposely held back by Porsche so as to not threaten the 911's/GT3's status. I have absolutely loved my 981 GT4 for the last 5 years, and have been thrilled by its abilities and composure on the track. I think it's easy to dismiss the GT4 as "nothing special" or a "starter" GT car if you've only driven it on the street. The car really comes alive on track when you feel it move around underneath you--so balanced, so agile, so easy to change direction. On the street, I can see how it could be considered "blah" by some, especially after coming out of a GT3. The GT4's engine is a standard Carrera engine, after all, and not a dedicated motorsport unit. The GT3 sounds fast just idling in the parking lot. So in many ways the GT4 is a superior platform being held back by a lesser engine and purposefully tall gearing. Besides power, the GT3 does have the advantage on track with its rear weight bias contributing to amazing stability under threshold braking and great traction coming out of corners. But put a GT3RS engine in the GT4, or the 550hp 4.5L DeMan unit, and add a shorter ratio gearset, and the inherent midengine balance would create a very interesting proposition vs the GT3 and 3RS on track. Will the upcoming GT4RS be such a beast? Probably not--Porsche is too savvy for that. So I'll just have to keep saving my pennies for a GT3 to enjoy on track...

Archimedes

I'd actually argue the opposite, given the fact that I don't have skills like Randy or Andy and will not be using my car they way they do. As such, I value the opinions of (some) automotive journalists with skills closer to mine but who have thousands of hours or seat time in various cars that allow them to provide decent insights. Some are idiot tools, but they're easy to spot and ignore. But many others are fairly skilled, experienced drivers, and some of them actually have a racing license and documented lap times on tracks that would put 99% of the Rennlist crowd to shame.

But my point in referencing Andy and Randy was to counter the argument that it was just fanboys who almost universally loved the new GT4. It's gotten high praise from far more than just the Porsche fanboy crowd.

paradocs98

Indeed, and it still wasn't the "full" M3 engine in the M2 Comp--it was detuned by 40hp so as to not threaten the M3. Only when the last gen M3 was on its way out did BMW allow the full-chat M3 engine in the end-of-the run M2 CS.

Jrtaylor9

gt3/rs have more noise and shove, fo sho. Gt4 shocks me how nimble/balanced/capable it feels for its price tag. I don’t have either anymore. So, no dog in the hunt. But I can totally see how someone would prefer either/or, money aside. GT3/rs platform definitely more shock and awe. GT4 a more subtle/balanced “impressiveness”. I do wish porsche would pack their gt3/rs shock/awe into a mid engine one day. Speaking of, Scud around circuit: mid engine with even MORE emotion; that was a fun experience, although probably not a smart long-term one as a consistent track weapon. But fun to flog a few times.

KelvinC

I'm pretty sure journalists take price into consideration when praising the GT4. The 718 GT4 is a 100–120k car, so like-for-like, in the model range, it can be stacked up against a 992 Carrera, and that's about it.

I don't think I've read or watched one review that didn't comment that the GT3's engine was a much more special experience. So this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The GT3 is a substantially more expensive car, it should have many qualities that are objectively superior to the GT4.

The GT4 is a great car, exactly as Porsche presents it—an entry to the GT model range with ample power and fantastically balanced handling. There's no reason to think anyone confuses it as a big GT3 competitor, and Porsche wouldn't do that within its own range.

The fact that there are folks (customers and journalists alike) who have their own reasons for liking the GT4 over any 911 shouldn't be seen as an affront to the GT3. As mentioned above, just personal preferences.

sonorous

Good points... Even just looking at gears alone, and using the same comparison method as the OP, the DeMan 2-5 gears close the gap very well while maintaining a consistent rpm drop and spread:

sgreer78

I wouldn't say it's a turd, I'd say it's a different car with a different aim. I no longer own mine as I bought a GT3, so it's not like I'm some butthurt owner sad because someone doesn't like my pride and joy, I just think the ruler you're trying to measure it with isn't equal. And no, I don't think the Supra is "sexy".