BlazinPond

Agree....we have similar taste. I think we both had an '18 Raptor also.

Pokerhobo

It's always been this way specifically for 911 owners and GT3 owners. There's even RS owners who look down on non-RS GT3 owners. It doesn't matter that Porsche specifically has a "pay for performance" model where their cars (mostly) line-up in a linear fashion price/performance. This thread was specifically created in the GT3 forum to say had bad the GT4 is...

groundhog

I don't think thats the case - there's a big distinction between bad and disappointing - and disappointing is relative to other vehicles a person may own or have test driven. In other words its a relative position not an absolute one. Moreover, and keep in mind - there would be a lot of people on this forum that have seen plenty of GT4 track miles at club, interclub or more and they're not front runners in terms of times, not even close. So from that perspective they're also compromised. Thats doesn't mean people aren't having in fun in them - they clearly are, but equally that fun comes with real performance limitations.

GTcrazed

Don't like the GT4 test drive, no problem. Everybody has their opinion. Comparing GT4 to 911 variants is ridiculous. Way different price point especially now that 992 GT3 pricing announced. Way different equipment. Compare the car to a similar priced Lotus, BMW, etc., and the GT4 is hard to beat.

groundhog

Why is it ridiculous, how about a 718 GT4 Vs 992 C2? I think there are some that would cross shop that combo. Also you have different perspectives from different markets and people with very different bank balances that might value design over performance and are happy to pay for it. There are very different mindsets, locations and budgets.

You also have to factor in the hype, I remember when the 981 GT4 was released, it was hailed as the second coming, again that was a relativist position. If you had driven a 675LT at the time and then a 981 GT4 - you probably would have wondered what the fuss was about. I bought a 991.2 GT3 RS and gutted it for tarmac rally - most on here would have an OCD meltdown, I bought a 720S in mantis green because I loved the design and colour...................people form different view points from different starting points and as such, I can see why the OP was disappointed - equally I have the same view.

In my view, the scorn should be reserved for a large number of youtubers and a significant number of motoring journalists that talk out of their proverbial backsides. Its pretty simple, if you want to talk about high performance track orientated cars - you better have the time sheets to back the rhetoric................many don't, and as consequence the verbiage and adjectives form an oft meaningless and lightly tossed word salad followed by #savethemanual.

ClassJ

When the original GT4 was released, it had market other factors going for it. 1) Manual GT car at a time when you could not get a GT3 in manual. 2) For years people wanted a higher performing Cayman and this was finally it! 3) As with all new models, the 991.1 GT3 was not as unilaterally loved as the 997.2 at first. There were folks on the fence. Then the whole 991.1 engine issue happened right around the time the GT4 hit dealers and I think that swayed people as well.

It also brought a lot of attention to the Cayman/981 which was already a pretty great car but as someone who already owned a 981 Porsche did not go far enough.

Within a short time after the 991.2 GT3 was released in manual, and the higher performing at similar price point 991.2 Carrera's hit the market, suddenly dealers were flooded with GT4's. In the summer of 2018 my local dealer had 3 CPO GT4 cars for sale and they did not move quickly.

The Cayman has its market and crowd of followers. Anyone who could not tolerate the 4 cyl now has a great option to buy.

Montaver

The main criticism of the GT4 seems to be 'it's not a GT3' and the gearing is long. The 991.2 GT3 has long gearing as well and isn't anymore exploitable on the street than the GT4 is. Of course it's not a GT3 when its 60% of the price, compromises have to be made somewhere. Compare GT4 to basically anything on the road and its one of the most visceral, connected and engaging driving experiences out there. I also don't think anyone is claiming the GT4 is the overall better car. 'Everyone is a critic' the old adage goes, if you judge all performance cars through a supercar lens everything is going to come up short. Agreed on a lot of Youtubers, but there are some excellent ones i.e. Prosser, Catchpole, Metcalf et al. I'd take the opinion of a guy who can place his BRZ at 10/10ths through bus stop over what some guy who putt's his Mclaren to cars and coffee thinks.

superfast02911

Recently went through the exact experience of what the OP built this thread around. I begrudgingly sold my 991.2 RS in exchange for a 718 GT4. The first few weeks, while punting around the street for break-in miles, I thought that I'd made a huge mistake...not nearly as special, raucous and raw, and the sound, jeez. Coming out of an RS with SW bypass, the GT4 sounds like a long wet fart. However, the chassis and the balance (I have mine dialed in with rear toe links and a 50/50 street/track alignment) felt pretty darn good, even on the street. All this being said, I told myself that if I didnt like it after an upcoming track weekend, that it was going to the curb–already–with only 600 miles.

That upcoming track weekend was this past weekend. And I have to say, my entire opinion of the car has changed. I'm actually quite fond of it, and want to order OAPs to cure the sh!tty (sorry not sorry) soundtrack, and a set of spares with R comps just because I know it can be SO much more. Having to rewire my brain a bit from the GT3 "steer with the throttle" mentality, and anticipating step-outs was a bit of a challenge, and this is what I'd consider my first "momentum" track car, coming out of driving GT3s on track for the last 12 years. But it is sooooo good on track. I totally get it now.

Another piece of perspective - my RS covered up some pretty **** driving habits on the track, and I could always rely on 530 HP to "fix" lap over lap inconsistencies, but the GT4 has already made me a better, more analytical driver at the track. What's more is that I'd argue I could personally never got close to the limits of the RS, for many valid reasons, but you CAN in a GT4 without coming off the track trembling. Like Andy shows in the video, its really easy to keep it in line, and its fairly progressive in letting you know when you're pushing too hard. As many of us have found out, you only know you overplayed your hand in a GT3 when you're pirouetting like a spinning hammer.

All that being said, a lot of valid points and perspectives on this thread to take into account. Its kind of tame on the street for sure, but then again if you're pushing any GT product on the street, then you're engaging in risky business IMO. As someone in marketing, I agree its completely transparent where they knee-cap its performance in particular facets vs the 3, but that's just really basic positioning and product planning, and can't say I'd do any different.

YMMV, but I think I'm going to keep my 718 GT4 and use it to make me a better driver at the track, and (I think) have more fun while I'm doing it.

GTcrazed

Again. Totally understand not liking the car after a test drive. Again. Totally understand not liking the car at all. The ridiculous part is comparing the car or expecting the car to be similar to a car that costs a lot more. My thinking was comparing the GT4 to other GT cars or other car manufactures like lambo evo where the price point is much higher. I don't disagree that there are 911 variant in the same general price range but they don't offer normally aspirated engines, 6 speed gearbox etc. Again, for those looking for a certain "drivers" car and comparing to similar choices such as the Lotus GT, the car is hard to beat.

FYI, I like my GT3 touring better than my GT4. But they are very different cars at different price points.

malmasri

Good thing Porsche builds all kinds of GT cars to satisfy the desire of many.
I think each has its own charm..... I love driving each one of them and have a favorite for every circumstance.....short track, long track, windy public road on cool days and same on nice summer days.
I simply won't own just one.
Enjoy them as much as you can.

bmw_e30

dynamically a gt4 is leaps better than any gt3 ever will be. sure the engine in the gt3 will always be a firecracker above but thats about it

also you should note that porsche stopped racing 911's a while ago and the current "911 rsr" they race is a mid engined cayman and it's been that way for over 5 years now
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/

BlueGT3

(Sigh)
A GT4 is a fantastic piece of kit. That is A LOT of car for $100k. GT3 is a fantastic car as well, different price point. Apples to Oranges. Dare I say sometimes I think about trading out of my GT3 for a GT4.....I can’t use a GT3 full tilt on the street and an RS is way too much for the street. Yes its great for Cars/Coffee but if you really want to push the car, the GT4 is pretty involving. Anyone saying they can access much of the GT3 on the street is pulling your leg
They are all GREAT CARS!!!! Perspective, people!

groundhog

The rear suspension set up in the GT4 is poor and the engine is a torque free zone. The engine move on the RSR was to allow the fitment of aero (massive rear diffuser) and reduce tire wear. The GT4 is an also ran track car, needs a ton of work on it to make it really suitable/competitive (for timed events/competition) and its dangerous as a tarmac rally car - because on closed B roads at very high speeds the back end is potentially dangerous due to its lack of compliance and consequent lack of composure.

The GT4 is a compromised price point car and thats why its not that good (from my perspective). Thats it, no amount waffle from GT4 owners will change that. I like mid-engined sports cars, the GTS is a much better road car and my McLaren 720S is so superior its not even worth talking about. Again time slips/dorian times/corner speeds/friction circles don't lie and journalists that can't put a time down have no real understanding of dynamics other than from a theoretical perspective and thats oft worthless along with their word salads and #savethemanual.

The people that seem to really get off on the GT4 largely fall into two groups (1) those that come from another marque like BMW (which hasn't produced a decent chassis out of the box in a long time) or (2) those that are buying to a price point. In the case of the former, its understandable that the GT4 appears to be a revelatory experience having come from a marque that hasn't produced a decent performance car in decades. In the case of the latter, its often the best base they have to work from and they have little time in higher end performance cars and are thus unable to make meaningful comparisons.

Montaver

What a joyless and warped perspective

GTcrazed

Thanks for noting: "from my perspective". You are certainly entitled to your opinions and to buy cars you like. Few here will be taking their "supercars" to the "ring". Correcting an oversteer at 40MPH in a non super car is fine and fun for me. Don't need the terror of trying that at 120mph in a GT2RS. And I respectfully disagree the GTS is a better road car. That's my perspective. As for your "GT4 purchase groups", I have not come from another marque like BMW and currently own several GT3 variants at higher price point. In fact this board is loaded with GT3 and other 911 owners that have purchased or shown interest in the GT4. Your generalities "offer no real understanding...other than a theoretical perspective that's oft worthless..."