Stress fracture in GT3RS Rear Window
02-25-2021, 08:55 AM
#61
Race Director
More and more US tracks and organizers allow windows up.
Ive only attended events that allow windows up and cancelled all others.
50+ track days, many at Sebring and 20,000 miles later I sold the car with its original rear window. And a personele clean interior. It’s not easy to clean what’s behind the seats with a roll bar in the way.
Porsche coukd add a winter tire type warning, windows can’t be open over 200kph or something...
They could also sell us a CS package in a box, so we do t have to copy the OEM roll bars and hack into our tubs to mount them.
- Manufacturers are so sure that windows up are safer in a crash that when there is an impending crash or the car is crashing, some cars close the windows automatically, so those will be closed anyway and a tool is needed.- DE cars have no safety nets. Race cars are not allowed on track without them because flailing arms out of the car is too dangerous; Yet in DE it’s mandatory to stick your entire arm out of the car. Crazy.
- Point by’s at 150 MPH, LOL! We are supposed to extend our entire arm out the window and over the roof. Good luck with that at high speed parts of the track.
- Debris enters the cockpit hitting the driver causing injury and maybe even an incident, typically rubber coming off cars, but also car parts or other debris flying up left after other incidents.
- When crashing, its preferred not to die from sharp pieces flying into the car cutting neck.
- Side window glass is extremely strong for a reason, it helps the structure of the car, we have all seen the guys trying to break them by throwing bricks and failing. – Yes a little ceramic hammer the size of a fingernail breaks it easily.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down - Your head wobbles in the car due to turbulence, hard to focus on your marks and induces vertigo. In the Porsche 991 if you don’t add little foils on the A pillar to prevent the windows blow out.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down – rear windows have been known to blow out, potentially causing incidents.
- With the windows up the side airbag curtains are more effective.
- Heat stroke or just heat fatigue leads to accidents, for this reason IMSA and other race groups make AC mandatory in the closed cockpit cars.
-It is safer to instruct – new student drivers have no business staking their hand off the wheel at modern car track speeds.
-Safety to instruct because communication with the student is easy, does not depend on unreliable head sets.
-Many shorts and tshirt only drivers would suit up in protective gear and full face helmets if they could keep the interior cool.
-Drivers can hear what the engine is doing instead of only hearing wind noise.
-Al manufacturers driving schools are operated with windows up for safety. They may be on to something.
-Driver safety during a crash should be primary. Extraction is the second thought however a net barely slows extraction and helps the primary focus to limit injuries during the incident.
-Arm out the window – specifically some new drivers who give confusing signals are dangerous. A turn signal is clear, every time!
It is silly for Track event organizers to make the decision for the drivers as opposed to give the drivers a choice – and thereby assume liability by going against manufacturers recommendations.
The fact that each group makes certain exceptions for night driving, wet driving or for cars that have fixed windows, just adds to the negligence. As a DE chair I would want to be free of the responsibility and give the drivers a choice.
Many US DE drivers are appalled by the enforced rules by some in the US that go against all ROW organizations.
The excuse:
Mostly the reason for mandatory windows down is to extracate the driver from the car.
But actually with most race seats and it is impossible to get a XXL size driver out of the car without the significant risk of further injury:
“only extricate a driver is there's imminent risk of a fire or visual major blood loss. Otherwise, the spine needs to be secure before moving the person. That takes way longer than breaking a glass. So, the argument of "prompt medical assistance " for the windows down falls short. It's borderline criminal to hastily remove someone from an accident without reasonable reason (fire, visual blood loss or clinical findings of so). Never mind trying to yank an insured driver out of side window opening.”
For a layman to do that, Good Samaritan laws may provide some coverage, for professionals doing that for a living, in not so
Ive only attended events that allow windows up and cancelled all others.
50+ track days, many at Sebring and 20,000 miles later I sold the car with its original rear window. And a personele clean interior. It’s not easy to clean what’s behind the seats with a roll bar in the way.
Porsche coukd add a winter tire type warning, windows can’t be open over 200kph or something...
They could also sell us a CS package in a box, so we do t have to copy the OEM roll bars and hack into our tubs to mount them.
- Manufacturers are so sure that windows up are safer in a crash that when there is an impending crash or the car is crashing, some cars close the windows automatically, so those will be closed anyway and a tool is needed.- DE cars have no safety nets. Race cars are not allowed on track without them because flailing arms out of the car is too dangerous; Yet in DE it’s mandatory to stick your entire arm out of the car. Crazy.
- Point by’s at 150 MPH, LOL! We are supposed to extend our entire arm out the window and over the roof. Good luck with that at high speed parts of the track.
- Debris enters the cockpit hitting the driver causing injury and maybe even an incident, typically rubber coming off cars, but also car parts or other debris flying up left after other incidents.
- When crashing, its preferred not to die from sharp pieces flying into the car cutting neck.
- Side window glass is extremely strong for a reason, it helps the structure of the car, we have all seen the guys trying to break them by throwing bricks and failing. – Yes a little ceramic hammer the size of a fingernail breaks it easily.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down - Your head wobbles in the car due to turbulence, hard to focus on your marks and induces vertigo. In the Porsche 991 if you don’t add little foils on the A pillar to prevent the windows blow out.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down – rear windows have been known to blow out, potentially causing incidents.
- With the windows up the side airbag curtains are more effective.
- Heat stroke or just heat fatigue leads to accidents, for this reason IMSA and other race groups make AC mandatory in the closed cockpit cars.
-It is safer to instruct – new student drivers have no business staking their hand off the wheel at modern car track speeds.
-Safety to instruct because communication with the student is easy, does not depend on unreliable head sets.
-Many shorts and tshirt only drivers would suit up in protective gear and full face helmets if they could keep the interior cool.
-Drivers can hear what the engine is doing instead of only hearing wind noise.
-Al manufacturers driving schools are operated with windows up for safety. They may be on to something.
-Driver safety during a crash should be primary. Extraction is the second thought however a net barely slows extraction and helps the primary focus to limit injuries during the incident.
-Arm out the window – specifically some new drivers who give confusing signals are dangerous. A turn signal is clear, every time!
It is silly for Track event organizers to make the decision for the drivers as opposed to give the drivers a choice – and thereby assume liability by going against manufacturers recommendations.
The fact that each group makes certain exceptions for night driving, wet driving or for cars that have fixed windows, just adds to the negligence. As a DE chair I would want to be free of the responsibility and give the drivers a choice.
Many US DE drivers are appalled by the enforced rules by some in the US that go against all ROW organizations.
The excuse:
Mostly the reason for mandatory windows down is to extracate the driver from the car.
But actually with most race seats and it is impossible to get a XXL size driver out of the car without the significant risk of further injury:
“only extricate a driver is there's imminent risk of a fire or visual major blood loss. Otherwise, the spine needs to be secure before moving the person. That takes way longer than breaking a glass. So, the argument of "prompt medical assistance " for the windows down falls short. It's borderline criminal to hastily remove someone from an accident without reasonable reason (fire, visual blood loss or clinical findings of so). Never mind trying to yank an insured driver out of side window opening.”
For a layman to do that, Good Samaritan laws may provide some coverage, for professionals doing that for a living, in not so
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usrodeo4 (02-25-2021)
02-25-2021, 01:56 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Maybe Porsche should look at what the F plane manufacturers use for their composite canopies (would not require the exacting optical tolerances that are so expensive/complex to achieve/map and then mitigate in real time via software)...the 35 can withstand a 4 lb bird hit at 480 knots.
Last edited by usrodeo4; 02-25-2021 at 01:57 PM.
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Al Allen (02-24-2022)
02-25-2021, 02:12 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
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Al Allen (02-24-2022)
02-25-2021, 02:50 PM
#66
02-25-2021, 03:26 PM
#68
Urs look like the DB carbon ones... Check porsche parts and builds, no such item as u listed. Those are aftermarket.
Last edited by M3the01; 02-25-2021 at 03:45 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Al Allen (02-24-2022)
02-25-2021, 03:42 PM
#69
Three Wheelin'
Sorry man, those are not factory. Porsche never produced anything like it. You bought ur car used, no? If it's on the build sheet, it is just a simple triangle carbon, those were obviously replaced with the aftermarket ones pictured.
Urs look like the DB carbon ones... Check porsche parts and builds, no such item as u listed. Those are aftermarket.
Urs look like the DB carbon ones... Check porsche parts and builds, no such item as u listed. Those are aftermarket.
Last edited by usrodeo4; 02-25-2021 at 03:45 PM.
