GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-18-2018, 03:40 PM
#1322
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Sure, but when a flipper gets a car before me (6 new Porsches purchased in the last 7 years, 2 of them GT cars, all from the same dealer), I'll continue to be annoyed. I'm awaiting an RS allocation, and if it's offered, I won't pay ADM.
09-18-2018, 03:42 PM
#1323
If legally allowed, I still think that PCNA should prohibit dealers from selling the new cars for above MSRP. That would reduce the tendency towards bubbles and ADMs in the pricing. Maybe the whole process needs more transparency also, but I think PAG and PCNA are motivated to keep us in the dark in order to maintain the impression of scarcity, which boosts sales, profits, and the reputation of the brand. "Better get in line to get your GT3/RS/GT4 now, because they're not making more, these cars are super awesome, and they're going to maintain or appreciate in value" … until they make more.
It's not that easy. Porsche can't really do much to force them to sell at MSRP. I'm not even sure if Porsche makes a profit on the GT cars directory. They are pretty small volume. More of a marketing tool than a profit driver. (Hey, we had a Marketing tool selling Marketing tools.)
Dodge tried with the Demon with limited success.
https://jalopnik.com/the-people-who-...e-l-1796270712
Btw, used Demons have sold around the $500,000 mark.
09-18-2018, 03:45 PM
#1324
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It's not that easy. Porsche can't really do much to force them to sell at MSRP. I'm not even sure if Porsche makes a profit on the GT cars directory. They are pretty small volume. More of a marketing tool than a profit driver. (Hey, we had a Marketing tool selling Marketing tools.)
Dodge tried with the Demon with limited success.
https://jalopnik.com/the-people-who-...e-l-1796270712
Btw, used Demons have sold around the $500,000 mark.
Dodge tried with the Demon with limited success.
https://jalopnik.com/the-people-who-...e-l-1796270712
Btw, used Demons have sold around the $500,000 mark.
09-18-2018, 03:48 PM
#1325
Race Director
Originally Posted by Evilfrog
I'm not even sure if Porsche makes a profit on the GT cars directory. They are pretty small volume. More of a marketing tool than a profit driver.
Porsche makes a lot of $$ on all cars INCLUDING GT CARS!! GT cars overall sales volume is less because of less cars available
09-18-2018, 03:49 PM
#1326
Rennlist Member
09-18-2018, 03:54 PM
#1327
It's not that easy. Porsche can't really do much to force them to sell at MSRP. I'm not even sure if Porsche makes a profit on the GT cars directory. They are pretty small volume. More of a marketing tool than a profit driver. (Hey, we had a Marketing tool selling Marketing tools.)
09-18-2018, 03:54 PM
#1328
Price of a brand new good, ANY GOOD, should be determined by a manufacturer and that price should never be allowed to go up. Period.
Similar to how Apple stores can’t charge 50% ADMs and have wait lists and VIP programs for their gold watch owners to have the first iphone X or that Samsung cant do the same with their 4k TVs or even clothing, food, whatever you want to call it.
The only time open market makes sense if an individual party is the seller. If I am selling my house, market conditions and what I think it should go for will determine the price of the house. Same with selling your super rare 911R. You are more than welcome to sell it for 500k if market is willing to pay for it.
There is no reason why dealers should be allowed to do this. The car business in this country is no different than mafia 20 years ago. Every car dealer and the sleezeball attitude of car salesman are just disgusting.
This ADM stuff does not happen in a lot of countries as they have laws against this. The price of a good, how much it is worth, is determined by the company produces it. Dealers do no work, and abuse their position to make extra money. And on top of that NONE of that extra markup goes back to Porsche. What makes a dealer so special, because they facilitate this uber complex and super time consuming deal and go to some porsche website and type in some numbers to place the order?
You guys with the trees in your backyards with benjamins growing, you need to stop this. Only you can make a difference because you have infinite disposable income and you buy so many of their cars.
Similar to how Apple stores can’t charge 50% ADMs and have wait lists and VIP programs for their gold watch owners to have the first iphone X or that Samsung cant do the same with their 4k TVs or even clothing, food, whatever you want to call it.
The only time open market makes sense if an individual party is the seller. If I am selling my house, market conditions and what I think it should go for will determine the price of the house. Same with selling your super rare 911R. You are more than welcome to sell it for 500k if market is willing to pay for it.
There is no reason why dealers should be allowed to do this. The car business in this country is no different than mafia 20 years ago. Every car dealer and the sleezeball attitude of car salesman are just disgusting.
This ADM stuff does not happen in a lot of countries as they have laws against this. The price of a good, how much it is worth, is determined by the company produces it. Dealers do no work, and abuse their position to make extra money. And on top of that NONE of that extra markup goes back to Porsche. What makes a dealer so special, because they facilitate this uber complex and super time consuming deal and go to some porsche website and type in some numbers to place the order?
You guys with the trees in your backyards with benjamins growing, you need to stop this. Only you can make a difference because you have infinite disposable income and you buy so many of their cars.
09-18-2018, 03:55 PM
#1329
Race Director
We'll see how fast it takes victims to be made whole. I have a feeling there will be some impatience with them in the near future, and the frustration will show on here.
09-18-2018, 04:00 PM
#1330
.... Dealers do no work, and abuse their position to make extra money. And on top of that NONE of that extra markup goes back to Porsche. What makes a dealer so special, because they facilitate this uber complex and super time consuming deal and go to some porsche website and type in some numbers to place the order?
But isnt Porsche enabling this behavior by allocating GT cars based on moving certain models that Porsche needs moved?
09-18-2018, 04:04 PM
#1331
Instructor
Some sort of limited-term, lease-only program for GT cars could cut out the ADM nonsense. Make it no cost to the lessees for the first 2-3 years by which time the car is no longer the latest & greatest and nobody will want to bid up the prices or pay a mark-up.
09-18-2018, 04:43 PM
#1332
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by DerStig
Price of a brand new good, ANY GOOD, should be determined by a manufacturer and that price should never be allowed to go up. Period.
Similar to how Apple stores can’t charge 50% ADMs and have wait lists and VIP programs for their gold watch owners to have the first iphone X or that Samsung cant do the same with their 4k TVs or even clothing, food, whatever you want to call it.
The only time open market makes sense if an individual party is the seller. If I am selling my house, market conditions and what I think it should go for will determine the price of the house. Same with selling your super rare 911R. You are more than welcome to sell it for 500k if market is willing to pay for it.
There is no reason why dealers should be allowed to do this. The car business in this country is no different than mafia 20 years ago. Every car dealer and the sleezeball attitude of car salesman are just disgusting.
This ADM stuff does not happen in a lot of countries as they have laws against this. The price of a good, how much it is worth, is determined by the company produces it. Dealers do no work, and abuse their position to make extra money. And on top of that NONE of that extra markup goes back to Porsche. What makes a dealer so special, because they facilitate this uber complex and super time consuming deal and go to some porsche website and type in some numbers to place the order?
You guys with the trees in your backyards with benjamins growing, you need to stop this. Only you can make a difference because you have infinite disposable income and you buy so many of their cars.
Similar to how Apple stores can’t charge 50% ADMs and have wait lists and VIP programs for their gold watch owners to have the first iphone X or that Samsung cant do the same with their 4k TVs or even clothing, food, whatever you want to call it.
The only time open market makes sense if an individual party is the seller. If I am selling my house, market conditions and what I think it should go for will determine the price of the house. Same with selling your super rare 911R. You are more than welcome to sell it for 500k if market is willing to pay for it.
There is no reason why dealers should be allowed to do this. The car business in this country is no different than mafia 20 years ago. Every car dealer and the sleezeball attitude of car salesman are just disgusting.
This ADM stuff does not happen in a lot of countries as they have laws against this. The price of a good, how much it is worth, is determined by the company produces it. Dealers do no work, and abuse their position to make extra money. And on top of that NONE of that extra markup goes back to Porsche. What makes a dealer so special, because they facilitate this uber complex and super time consuming deal and go to some porsche website and type in some numbers to place the order?
You guys with the trees in your backyards with benjamins growing, you need to stop this. Only you can make a difference because you have infinite disposable income and you buy so many of their cars.
About 15 years ago, I planned to meet a friend at a new James Bond movie. After both of us drove 30 minutes to get there, we found out that it was sold out. So after thinking about it for a few minutes, I found the nearest high school kids and offered them double the price they paid for their tickets. (I guess I risked $30 that the tickets weren't fraudulent). They were more than happy to sell me their tickets. Free market trade. Win-Win.
What you don't get is that the ADM paid by some of the wealthy individuals for a GT is movie ticket money to them. They want what they want, when they want it and are willing to pay what it takes to get it. That's not going away any time soon.
09-18-2018, 04:48 PM
#1333
But then the dealer will have used gt3 that they mark up. Walk in the door and want new gt3? First buy a used one then you are on the list for the next one. This is Ferrari 101 (at least during f430)
09-18-2018, 05:00 PM
#1334
Race Director
Guys ... US Franchise law dictates franchisors cannot dictate pricing to franchisees. US Porsche dealers are franchisees. They are not company owned stores, nor are they just retail dealers like Rolex. Different scenarios there.
Why are we polluting this thread with ADM's??
Only thing Porsche could do is penalize dealers they didn't think were acting nicely with less GT allocations.
Issue is, GT cars are a bonus program to dealers from PCNA, and PCNA actually see's little wrong with what's going on now.
There is no perfect system. It is what it is.
Only solution is make more cars. See Macan's selling for over MSRP?? No. Porsche wants to use the GT cars as an upper hand and won't make so many where dealers don't see them as a bonus.
Can we move on??
Why are we polluting this thread with ADM's??
Only thing Porsche could do is penalize dealers they didn't think were acting nicely with less GT allocations.
Issue is, GT cars are a bonus program to dealers from PCNA, and PCNA actually see's little wrong with what's going on now.
There is no perfect system. It is what it is.
Only solution is make more cars. See Macan's selling for over MSRP?? No. Porsche wants to use the GT cars as an upper hand and won't make so many where dealers don't see them as a bonus.
Can we move on??
09-18-2018, 05:01 PM
#1335
Track Day
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How about this "situation" in February 2018 ROY?? You're defending Shiraaz and Champion in this case!!
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...entid=1290833&
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https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...entid=1290833&
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