Are GT3s with ADM moving off dealer lots?
03-03-2018, 12:16 PM
#196
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One dealer that reached out to me a couple of weeks ago said they had just been told that there was a GT3 currently being shipped to them that they had no clue about until they were told by Porsche that it was on the way. They didn't order it, and a customer didn't order it. It was a good spec and I said I would take it, but someone else beat me to it.
They offered it to me at MSRP despite me never having done any business with the dealership besides inquiring about another car. Not sure how often this kind of situation happens, but I thought it was interesting.
They offered it to me at MSRP despite me never having done any business with the dealership besides inquiring about another car. Not sure how often this kind of situation happens, but I thought it was interesting.
If you’re in SoCal looking for a MSRP car, pm me your contact info and I’ll send you a pm if this situation pops up again. I have a feeling it will.
03-03-2018, 01:56 PM
#197
I can honestly say as a consumer, we don't like adm on purchases. My gut feeling is that it's more of an ego than anything else.
Lets face it, a lot of us spend more than the average ADM amount on just preps and modes for our cars. For some cars CXX is more $$$. Forget about depreciation, just tracking the car on a monthly basis cost min. $5000 plus = track time, consumables, maintenance. Don't forgets the money for track lessons, writing off a car on track cost A lot more $$$, lol. Stop worrying too much on ADM, go out make more money to offset cost of toy. Flippers worry more about ADM. The other group wants to know if they got a fair shake. "Life is not fair, it's just a ride"
Lets face it, a lot of us spend more than the average ADM amount on just preps and modes for our cars. For some cars CXX is more $$$. Forget about depreciation, just tracking the car on a monthly basis cost min. $5000 plus = track time, consumables, maintenance. Don't forgets the money for track lessons, writing off a car on track cost A lot more $$$, lol. Stop worrying too much on ADM, go out make more money to offset cost of toy. Flippers worry more about ADM. The other group wants to know if they got a fair shake. "Life is not fair, it's just a ride"
So now we all pay ADM in one form or another, whether it is buying more regular Porsches or just paying over sticker.
03-03-2018, 02:42 PM
#198
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It occurs to me that perhaps people who've decided to go ahead and pay ADM may be motivated to popularize the idea of doing so.
Count me as still a naysayer. Unless these cars are known to be the last of a special kind (eg, 997 4.0) and therefore likely to gain substantial value, ADM is just a result of impatience. Porsche doesn't generally undersupply the market, but they (and dealers) are good at creating hype about undersupply. You may have to search and wait, but if you want one, you can have one without ADM. People don't generally pay ADM on the non-GT Porsches (I paid below MSRP on all of mine) because there's no perception of undersupply.
I don't believe for a second that Porsche is going to stop making GT cars just as desirable as the 991, and am confident that if they go turbo, they'll do it well. As far as manual vs PDK, experience shows that if enough people really want manual, they'll continue to offer manual in GT cars.
I don't like ADM because it would cost me more to buy a car I actually intend to drive. We can rationalize paying 'only' an extra $25K or so, but I can think of a LOT of good ways to spend $25K, rather than giving it to a dealer.
Count me as still a naysayer. Unless these cars are known to be the last of a special kind (eg, 997 4.0) and therefore likely to gain substantial value, ADM is just a result of impatience. Porsche doesn't generally undersupply the market, but they (and dealers) are good at creating hype about undersupply. You may have to search and wait, but if you want one, you can have one without ADM. People don't generally pay ADM on the non-GT Porsches (I paid below MSRP on all of mine) because there's no perception of undersupply.
I don't believe for a second that Porsche is going to stop making GT cars just as desirable as the 991, and am confident that if they go turbo, they'll do it well. As far as manual vs PDK, experience shows that if enough people really want manual, they'll continue to offer manual in GT cars.
I don't like ADM because it would cost me more to buy a car I actually intend to drive. We can rationalize paying 'only' an extra $25K or so, but I can think of a LOT of good ways to spend $25K, rather than giving it to a dealer.
03-03-2018, 03:06 PM
#199
I've had two dealers call me in the last 48 hours telling me customers cancelled orders or rejected delivery. One wanted $30k ADM, one $50k ADM (original amounts on the orders).
I'm wondering if some early customers that agreed to ADMs are now getting cold feet once it's time to pay up, especially since it seems the market overall is coming down a small bit (seeing some pre-owned cars going for MSRP, some dealers taking $14k for models on the floor, etc.). Sure you have customers who are maybe now waiting for the RS etc. but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more cancellations and cars available from the dealers who got greedy with high ADMs on orders. Not saying those will go for MSRP, but it gives me hope to grab one closer to $10k-$15k ADM.
I'm wondering if some early customers that agreed to ADMs are now getting cold feet once it's time to pay up, especially since it seems the market overall is coming down a small bit (seeing some pre-owned cars going for MSRP, some dealers taking $14k for models on the floor, etc.). Sure you have customers who are maybe now waiting for the RS etc. but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more cancellations and cars available from the dealers who got greedy with high ADMs on orders. Not saying those will go for MSRP, but it gives me hope to grab one closer to $10k-$15k ADM.
03-03-2018, 03:14 PM
#200
So much angst over a meaningless number called MSRP. Pay what it's worth to you. Or don't. The market really doesn't care.
03-03-2018, 04:16 PM
#201
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I've had two dealers call me in the last 48 hours telling me customers cancelled orders or rejected delivery. One wanted $30k ADM, one $50k ADM (original amounts on the orders).
I'm wondering if some early customers that agreed to ADMs are now getting cold feet once it's time to pay up, especially since it seems the market overall is coming down a small bit (seeing some pre-owned cars going for MSRP, some dealers taking $14k for models on the floor, etc.). Sure you have customers who are maybe now waiting for the RS etc. but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more cancellations and cars available from the dealers who got greedy with high ADMs on orders. Not saying those will go for MSRP, but it gives me hope to grab one closer to $10k-$15k ADM.
I'm wondering if some early customers that agreed to ADMs are now getting cold feet once it's time to pay up, especially since it seems the market overall is coming down a small bit (seeing some pre-owned cars going for MSRP, some dealers taking $14k for models on the floor, etc.). Sure you have customers who are maybe now waiting for the RS etc. but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more cancellations and cars available from the dealers who got greedy with high ADMs on orders. Not saying those will go for MSRP, but it gives me hope to grab one closer to $10k-$15k ADM.
03-03-2018, 04:25 PM
#202
The ADMs people are talking about increase the dealer's profit by a factor of 2x or more. If I was a dealer, I'd hold out for that kind of profit too. The question is how many people are going to percieve scarcity, or be in a hurry to get a car, enough to pay big ADM? If the number of those people is well below the number of cars available, the ADMs will eventually have to drop. Also factor in that supply of 991 GT3/RS cars will go up as 991.1 cars hit the market as people place orders and take delivery on their 991.2 cars.
03-03-2018, 04:32 PM
#203
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I don't see the market coming down at all. Since its been announced there will be no 2019s People willing to wait on allocations at their dealer are coming to the realization
they better act now or they are not going to get one. In fact I get emails from several dealers in the US that somehow get new .2 GT3s and resell the as used with only delivery
miles-19,20. Before the 2019 issue they were asking for $190 range for strippers and 200 for ones with more options. Right after the notice came out that the 992 was coming
out in 2019, they raised the price about $5k on the ones that were still in stock that were introduced at the old price and they quickly sold. Now those same cars are in the $210
range. I talked to my guy in California and their AMDs have gone up since the notice too, and the cars are moving. You have to pay what the market is and the numbers coming in
are going DOWN. In order to get a car at 10-15 you had to buy around the Jan 1 time frame or before. It looks like the line is long and when one guys drops out the next guy steps in.
There is one exception. Cars that dealers ordered that have just ridiculous option lists with prices WAY up there are getting less ADMS. Its hard to ask $50k over for a car that has
a 190 MSRP.
they better act now or they are not going to get one. In fact I get emails from several dealers in the US that somehow get new .2 GT3s and resell the as used with only delivery
miles-19,20. Before the 2019 issue they were asking for $190 range for strippers and 200 for ones with more options. Right after the notice came out that the 992 was coming
out in 2019, they raised the price about $5k on the ones that were still in stock that were introduced at the old price and they quickly sold. Now those same cars are in the $210
range. I talked to my guy in California and their AMDs have gone up since the notice too, and the cars are moving. You have to pay what the market is and the numbers coming in
are going DOWN. In order to get a car at 10-15 you had to buy around the Jan 1 time frame or before. It looks like the line is long and when one guys drops out the next guy steps in.
There is one exception. Cars that dealers ordered that have just ridiculous option lists with prices WAY up there are getting less ADMS. Its hard to ask $50k over for a car that has
a 190 MSRP.
03-03-2018, 04:41 PM
#204
So glad I acted early and got in @ MSRP so I don't have to put up with ADM BS. GT3s are worth exactly MSRP to me
03-03-2018, 04:56 PM
#205
It occurs to me that perhaps people who've decided to go ahead and pay ADM may be motivated to popularize the idea of doing so.
Count me as still a naysayer. Unless these cars are known to be the last of a special kind (eg, 997 4.0) and therefore likely to gain substantial value, ADM is just a result of impatience. Porsche doesn't generally undersupply the market, but they (and dealers) are good at creating hype about undersupply. You may have to search and wait, but if you want one, you can have one without ADM. People don't generally pay ADM on the non-GT Porsches (I paid below MSRP on all of mine) because there's no perception of undersupply.
I don't believe for a second that Porsche is going to stop making GT cars just as desirable as the 991, and am confident that if they go turbo, they'll do it well. As far as manual vs PDK, experience shows that if enough people really want manual, they'll continue to offer manual in GT cars.
I don't like ADM because it would cost me more to buy a car I actually intend to drive. We can rationalize paying 'only' an extra $25K or so, but I can think of a LOT of good ways to spend $25K, rather than giving it to a dealer.
Count me as still a naysayer. Unless these cars are known to be the last of a special kind (eg, 997 4.0) and therefore likely to gain substantial value, ADM is just a result of impatience. Porsche doesn't generally undersupply the market, but they (and dealers) are good at creating hype about undersupply. You may have to search and wait, but if you want one, you can have one without ADM. People don't generally pay ADM on the non-GT Porsches (I paid below MSRP on all of mine) because there's no perception of undersupply.
I don't believe for a second that Porsche is going to stop making GT cars just as desirable as the 991, and am confident that if they go turbo, they'll do it well. As far as manual vs PDK, experience shows that if enough people really want manual, they'll continue to offer manual in GT cars.
I don't like ADM because it would cost me more to buy a car I actually intend to drive. We can rationalize paying 'only' an extra $25K or so, but I can think of a LOT of good ways to spend $25K, rather than giving it to a dealer.
I don't see the market coming down at all. Since its been announced there will be no 2019s People willing to wait on allocations at their dealer are coming to the realization
they better act now or they are not going to get one. In fact I get emails from several dealers in the US that somehow get new .2 GT3s and resell the as used with only delivery
miles-19,20. Before the 2019 issue they were asking for $190 range for strippers and 200 for ones with more options. Right after the notice came out that the 992 was coming
out in 2019, they raised the price about $5k on the ones that were still in stock that were introduced at the old price and they quickly sold. Now those same cars are in the $210
range. I talked to my guy in California and their AMDs have gone up since the notice too, and the cars are moving. You have to pay what the market is and the numbers coming in
are going DOWN. In order to get a car at 10-15 you had to buy around the Jan 1 time frame or before. It looks like the line is long and when one guys drops out the next guy steps in.
There is one exception. Cars that dealers ordered that have just ridiculous option lists with prices WAY up there are getting less ADMS. Its hard to ask $50k over for a car that has
a 190 MSRP.
they better act now or they are not going to get one. In fact I get emails from several dealers in the US that somehow get new .2 GT3s and resell the as used with only delivery
miles-19,20. Before the 2019 issue they were asking for $190 range for strippers and 200 for ones with more options. Right after the notice came out that the 992 was coming
out in 2019, they raised the price about $5k on the ones that were still in stock that were introduced at the old price and they quickly sold. Now those same cars are in the $210
range. I talked to my guy in California and their AMDs have gone up since the notice too, and the cars are moving. You have to pay what the market is and the numbers coming in
are going DOWN. In order to get a car at 10-15 you had to buy around the Jan 1 time frame or before. It looks like the line is long and when one guys drops out the next guy steps in.
There is one exception. Cars that dealers ordered that have just ridiculous option lists with prices WAY up there are getting less ADMS. Its hard to ask $50k over for a car that has
a 190 MSRP.
03-08-2018, 10:29 AM
#207
Rennlist Member
Agree. I was late to the game and waited as I saw ADMs coming down. The last month I have watched them rise and feel lucky to get a build slot at 15+. I am only interested in a Touring with a specific type of build and never saw one on the 200 mile "used" market that I was interested in. At least it will be my build which is in the 162k range and not have a lot of options I'm not interested in. My final price of about 177k at least gets me a car that I feel is right for me without bells and whistles I have no interest in given my planned use.
03-08-2018, 10:35 AM
#208
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03-08-2018, 10:46 AM
#209
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ADM will vary based on demand, perception of supply, and actual supply. I predict that ADM to eventually go down, unless these are the last NA GT cars. For affluent people, the economy and stock market are pretty good for now, but a downturn there will also affect ADM, as demand will surely drop.
03-08-2018, 11:08 AM
#210