Maccas GT4 road review...
09-11-2016, 05:50 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Maccas GT4 road review...
Hi guys. Probably a bit out of context as this happened in New Zealand today. Leong is a kiwi track buddy with a GT4 who also drives Targa. Hes my closest "competitor" during our track days and Targa is a tarmac rally with roads closed off ins stages and run as a time trial with 200kmph speed limits....
Enjoyable day today. Ron Sunday Drive with 8 cars including 2 x GT3 + 1 x GT4. Weather was perfect for it and it was a great chance to break in the new exhaust and pads both which delivered on expectations.
Leong and I swapped keys for an hour of fast back road driving. Not quite Targa pace but with a little foxing I did get the chance to push the GT4 hard enough to reveal its character (on road at least and within my abilities given it was the first time I had driven one properly).
It was a very interesting exercise. These are my thoughts after a good drive and then back into my GT3.
Review:
1). General. Its a very easy car to drive, right off the bat. Requires little familiarity to start pushing the chassis hard and getting into the "groove" with the car. All controls fall easily to hand, clutch pedal weight is good, visibility is excellent and it does feel a little smaller than the 911 from the drivers seat.
2). Gearbox. Excellent. Very direct, notchy but positive and not vagueness. Its the best manual Porsche gearbox Ive ever used. Gear ratios I thought were good, other than 1-2 which is the only criticism I believe has any merit on the reviews Ive read. On tight back roads sometimes 2 seems to high but 1 would be too low. Otherwise I think the gearing criticism is probably a bit overdone, the cars generous torque (it has only 10lbft less than the GT3) allows even the fractionally high 3rd gear to get the job done. Overall the gearing was more forgivable than I expected and my only criticism is the 1-2, but you can drive around it.
3). Steering. Its is not as immediate on turn in as the GT3 (probably in part due to the chassis configuration) but is does have a fraction more feedback (again possibly due to the chassis configuration).
4). Brakes. These are the same as the GT3, work great and nothing much to say here.
5). Engine/exhaust. There is enough torque and power for the chassis. Jumping from the GT3 to 4 to 3 again the largest single difference is the power unit. The GT4 runs out or revs relatively quickly when you are used to driving anything with a 8000-9000 limiter. The engine lacks the sound and frenzied character of the GT3 and the exhaust although it sounds ok from outside the car (I used the exhaust mode on for alot of my driving) doesn't become an overly memorable part of the driving experience. In the GT3 is "all about the engine". Not so in the GT4 , but its a great deployment of the 911 3.8 unit and it gets the job done with good mid range torque.
6). Chassis. This was predictably the second largest difference in the nature of the two cars after the engine. Ive been a 911 driver almost 20 years so had got used to exploiting the balance of traits of those cars. The Cayman chassis differs by having more neutrality mid corner. You can take a different line than the 911. Entry can be different and on the limit of under and over-steer the car feels quite neutral. It has to be said that Leong has done quite alot of work to his chassis to get it this way so out of the box fresh Im guessing a stock GT4 may feel a bit different. I never got out of shape with it (other peoples cars etc) but I did get it (by over exuberance) closer to the limits of its safe traction on two occasions, partially testament in a first drive as to how confidence inspiring the chassis is. I think once you know it better you can work it harder, but is its a less weight transfer sensitive chassis to the 911 at least with Leongs set up and Im still unsure if I like that personally or not (i.e. for the follies of the 911 chassis I do quite like the way that once you understand the effect of the weight transfer you can make the chassis work with you - the only caveat is when you much it up it can get rather undone - but this may also be a personality thing because Im probably like things a little more "close to the edge" than some folks). Overall very competent handling that inspires confidence and it very neutral to the limit.
7). NVH. Interestingly the GT4 felt LESS compliant on the road. Probably the shorter wheel base and could well be the configuration of the rear suspension (less travel?). We drove some very poor surfaces at speeds they were not designed for and the car does feel quite stiff at times but its not a deterrent to pressing on. There is a fraction more rear tyre roar and you can hear the pinion shaft more clearly (I guess both are because the components are closer to the driver and the box is MT with a mechanical diff?).
8). Electronic blip. Sport Mode. I can really see the advantage of this on the track, but I have to say it annoyed me on teh road. Probably more seat time would temper that, but it does seem a bit "derived" when you first drive the car. My issue is I like to heel and toe, its really part of the MT experience that makes driving a car with a stick more involving and personally challenging for me. So after a few minutes with it one forgetting it was doing the blip half way through me doing it myself I shut if off and felt the car was better for it. Its a personal thing. On the track I can see its benefit in gearbox and engine sympathy, but for a fast back road drive it seemed unnecessary with such a great snicky box and good clutch action...others may differ.
9). Other. You do not notice the GT4 is lighter than the GT3 in real life. The GT4 feels built to the same solid standard as the GT3, stiff and unbreakable.
In summary these two cars are more different than I actually expected!
The GT4 met my expectations in pretty much every category other than one. Like most Ive read much about this car by now and the reviews are very good so my expectations were high, so the fact that it met them is a very positive thing. Its a great car and fun to drive on the road and (I imagine) the track. The car is very easy to learn to drive quickly. I highly recommend it and would say its one of the best Porsche's Ive had the pleasure to drive to date.
However...(this is where I imagine being a 911/GT3 owner has tainted me), the GT3 engine is an EVENT. If you were not coming from a 8000-9000 rpm GT3 to a GT4 you would unlikely know any different but I must say the single most noticeable thing to me getting in the GT4 was "where has my engine gone?". The frenzied nature of 8000+, sound and vibrations and exhaust wail (and standing hairs on back of neck) are somewhat obvious by their absence. The steering is more direct and the chassis loading more reliant on weight transfer and balance which makes the GT3 a more difficult proposition to get the best out of, but ultimately more rewarding I believe when you figure it out.
Interestingly the PDK vs MT thing didn't really play a large part in my review. This is because I believe in the merits of both transmissions now having lived 20+ years with MT and 3 years with PDK-S. I still chuckle frequently banging through gears in the GT3 on back roads, the engine whipping through the 7 closely stacked ratios so fast that sometimes its seems arcade like and gives a curious high. Returning from the drive the Southern Motorway was crawling pace for 35 minutes and here the advantage to throw it into auto for the first time that day becomes apparent.
The 6 speed MT in the GT4 is great too, but you only use 2-3 gears for 85% of that type of driving. Lower rations would certainly improve the level of engagement a little I believe. I love getting a good down-change with H&T timing and this cars box and clutch are SOOOOO much easier to do it in than the G50 in the 993 (horrible by comparison to be honest!). Both transmissions suit the work they do and the chars they are in well I thing and compliment each other well.
For fast NZ B roads the GT4s reach is such that you can use up most of its performance. The GT3 however is often straining at its leach. I have used the full reach of the GT3 on the road on a number of occasion - its requires utter concentration on our poor B road surfaces and acceptance of the possible consequences of the pace it produces. I like to "get on it" when I can so I always found I could drive my 993 a bit quicker on the road than the GT3. I have driven my GT3 quicker than my 993 but for very small windows of time on certain well paved roads - but for duration of pace a car like my old 993 and GT4 is better suited to NZ roads IMO. If we lived in Europe I can say the reverse is likely true!
I think is you wanted a short answer to this review then look at it like this: the GT3 is defined by its engine/exhaust and the GT4 my its Manual Transmission.
IMO if you are looking for a single car solution to a brilliant road and track Porsche that represents value for money the GT4 cannot be bettered. If you are a multiple past Porsche owner and have ever lived with a high revving flat 6 (any generation GT3 or MFI 2.4 hot rod or similar) then the extra money for a GT3 may be well spent. Next generation GT3 includes MT so I guess the decision will get easier for some if they have the budget. Both excellent cars and I really did enjoy my time in the GT4 , I was not dissapointed, it was as I expected but I also enjoyed getting back into my GT3 too!
If life were perfect I might have both!
Thanks Leong for the drive, as I said it was the best Bday gift I got!
Enjoyable day today. Ron Sunday Drive with 8 cars including 2 x GT3 + 1 x GT4. Weather was perfect for it and it was a great chance to break in the new exhaust and pads both which delivered on expectations.
Leong and I swapped keys for an hour of fast back road driving. Not quite Targa pace but with a little foxing I did get the chance to push the GT4 hard enough to reveal its character (on road at least and within my abilities given it was the first time I had driven one properly).
It was a very interesting exercise. These are my thoughts after a good drive and then back into my GT3.
Review:
1). General. Its a very easy car to drive, right off the bat. Requires little familiarity to start pushing the chassis hard and getting into the "groove" with the car. All controls fall easily to hand, clutch pedal weight is good, visibility is excellent and it does feel a little smaller than the 911 from the drivers seat.
2). Gearbox. Excellent. Very direct, notchy but positive and not vagueness. Its the best manual Porsche gearbox Ive ever used. Gear ratios I thought were good, other than 1-2 which is the only criticism I believe has any merit on the reviews Ive read. On tight back roads sometimes 2 seems to high but 1 would be too low. Otherwise I think the gearing criticism is probably a bit overdone, the cars generous torque (it has only 10lbft less than the GT3) allows even the fractionally high 3rd gear to get the job done. Overall the gearing was more forgivable than I expected and my only criticism is the 1-2, but you can drive around it.
3). Steering. Its is not as immediate on turn in as the GT3 (probably in part due to the chassis configuration) but is does have a fraction more feedback (again possibly due to the chassis configuration).
4). Brakes. These are the same as the GT3, work great and nothing much to say here.
5). Engine/exhaust. There is enough torque and power for the chassis. Jumping from the GT3 to 4 to 3 again the largest single difference is the power unit. The GT4 runs out or revs relatively quickly when you are used to driving anything with a 8000-9000 limiter. The engine lacks the sound and frenzied character of the GT3 and the exhaust although it sounds ok from outside the car (I used the exhaust mode on for alot of my driving) doesn't become an overly memorable part of the driving experience. In the GT3 is "all about the engine". Not so in the GT4 , but its a great deployment of the 911 3.8 unit and it gets the job done with good mid range torque.
6). Chassis. This was predictably the second largest difference in the nature of the two cars after the engine. Ive been a 911 driver almost 20 years so had got used to exploiting the balance of traits of those cars. The Cayman chassis differs by having more neutrality mid corner. You can take a different line than the 911. Entry can be different and on the limit of under and over-steer the car feels quite neutral. It has to be said that Leong has done quite alot of work to his chassis to get it this way so out of the box fresh Im guessing a stock GT4 may feel a bit different. I never got out of shape with it (other peoples cars etc) but I did get it (by over exuberance) closer to the limits of its safe traction on two occasions, partially testament in a first drive as to how confidence inspiring the chassis is. I think once you know it better you can work it harder, but is its a less weight transfer sensitive chassis to the 911 at least with Leongs set up and Im still unsure if I like that personally or not (i.e. for the follies of the 911 chassis I do quite like the way that once you understand the effect of the weight transfer you can make the chassis work with you - the only caveat is when you much it up it can get rather undone - but this may also be a personality thing because Im probably like things a little more "close to the edge" than some folks). Overall very competent handling that inspires confidence and it very neutral to the limit.
7). NVH. Interestingly the GT4 felt LESS compliant on the road. Probably the shorter wheel base and could well be the configuration of the rear suspension (less travel?). We drove some very poor surfaces at speeds they were not designed for and the car does feel quite stiff at times but its not a deterrent to pressing on. There is a fraction more rear tyre roar and you can hear the pinion shaft more clearly (I guess both are because the components are closer to the driver and the box is MT with a mechanical diff?).
8). Electronic blip. Sport Mode. I can really see the advantage of this on the track, but I have to say it annoyed me on teh road. Probably more seat time would temper that, but it does seem a bit "derived" when you first drive the car. My issue is I like to heel and toe, its really part of the MT experience that makes driving a car with a stick more involving and personally challenging for me. So after a few minutes with it one forgetting it was doing the blip half way through me doing it myself I shut if off and felt the car was better for it. Its a personal thing. On the track I can see its benefit in gearbox and engine sympathy, but for a fast back road drive it seemed unnecessary with such a great snicky box and good clutch action...others may differ.
9). Other. You do not notice the GT4 is lighter than the GT3 in real life. The GT4 feels built to the same solid standard as the GT3, stiff and unbreakable.
In summary these two cars are more different than I actually expected!
The GT4 met my expectations in pretty much every category other than one. Like most Ive read much about this car by now and the reviews are very good so my expectations were high, so the fact that it met them is a very positive thing. Its a great car and fun to drive on the road and (I imagine) the track. The car is very easy to learn to drive quickly. I highly recommend it and would say its one of the best Porsche's Ive had the pleasure to drive to date.
However...(this is where I imagine being a 911/GT3 owner has tainted me), the GT3 engine is an EVENT. If you were not coming from a 8000-9000 rpm GT3 to a GT4 you would unlikely know any different but I must say the single most noticeable thing to me getting in the GT4 was "where has my engine gone?". The frenzied nature of 8000+, sound and vibrations and exhaust wail (and standing hairs on back of neck) are somewhat obvious by their absence. The steering is more direct and the chassis loading more reliant on weight transfer and balance which makes the GT3 a more difficult proposition to get the best out of, but ultimately more rewarding I believe when you figure it out.
Interestingly the PDK vs MT thing didn't really play a large part in my review. This is because I believe in the merits of both transmissions now having lived 20+ years with MT and 3 years with PDK-S. I still chuckle frequently banging through gears in the GT3 on back roads, the engine whipping through the 7 closely stacked ratios so fast that sometimes its seems arcade like and gives a curious high. Returning from the drive the Southern Motorway was crawling pace for 35 minutes and here the advantage to throw it into auto for the first time that day becomes apparent.
The 6 speed MT in the GT4 is great too, but you only use 2-3 gears for 85% of that type of driving. Lower rations would certainly improve the level of engagement a little I believe. I love getting a good down-change with H&T timing and this cars box and clutch are SOOOOO much easier to do it in than the G50 in the 993 (horrible by comparison to be honest!). Both transmissions suit the work they do and the chars they are in well I thing and compliment each other well.
For fast NZ B roads the GT4s reach is such that you can use up most of its performance. The GT3 however is often straining at its leach. I have used the full reach of the GT3 on the road on a number of occasion - its requires utter concentration on our poor B road surfaces and acceptance of the possible consequences of the pace it produces. I like to "get on it" when I can so I always found I could drive my 993 a bit quicker on the road than the GT3. I have driven my GT3 quicker than my 993 but for very small windows of time on certain well paved roads - but for duration of pace a car like my old 993 and GT4 is better suited to NZ roads IMO. If we lived in Europe I can say the reverse is likely true!
I think is you wanted a short answer to this review then look at it like this: the GT3 is defined by its engine/exhaust and the GT4 my its Manual Transmission.
IMO if you are looking for a single car solution to a brilliant road and track Porsche that represents value for money the GT4 cannot be bettered. If you are a multiple past Porsche owner and have ever lived with a high revving flat 6 (any generation GT3 or MFI 2.4 hot rod or similar) then the extra money for a GT3 may be well spent. Next generation GT3 includes MT so I guess the decision will get easier for some if they have the budget. Both excellent cars and I really did enjoy my time in the GT4 , I was not dissapointed, it was as I expected but I also enjoyed getting back into my GT3 too!
If life were perfect I might have both!
Thanks Leong for the drive, as I said it was the best Bday gift I got!
09-11-2016, 05:52 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is Leongs response to my post above:
A very thorough review as usual Mark . Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it
The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
A very thorough review as usual Mark . Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it
The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
09-11-2016, 07:44 AM
#3
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Great write-up. Should probably be either a sticky or required reading over on the GT4 forum.
09-11-2016, 09:39 AM
#5
Thanks for great write up.
09-11-2016, 10:11 AM
#7
Race Director
Happy birthday Macca.
The GT4 sounds like it earns its Porsche badge well. I saw one up close and they are very nice. Thanks you guys for sharing your opinions.
The GT4 sounds like it earns its Porsche badge well. I saw one up close and they are very nice. Thanks you guys for sharing your opinions.
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09-11-2016, 10:27 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
Very well written Macca and thank you for the insight and opinion. I've spent a few laps on track in the GT4, and I wholeheartedly agree, this is the best manual transmission Porsche have ever made! The engine is surely the lacking element. At the very least, they could deliver a truly uncorked 3.8 pushing another 30-40 bhp. With the popularity of the GT4 (I can't believe how many were at Road America last week -- more than I thought were even produced by the factory it seemed!!), perhaps a violent/raw GT4RS we shall one day see? Likely wishful thinking though, as the GT4 Clubsport -- a "factory race car" -- is an utter disappointment in so many regards.
Cheers for the write up!
Cheers for the write up!
09-11-2016, 10:46 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Just bought one. Totally agree on the assessment. Mooty and I were trading near identical nota yesterday.
My RS isn't going anywhere. That hurried, frenzied pace is missed in the gt4. A newer RS will be in my garage at some point but for now the gt4 will be a fun toy.
That said the gt4 hauls *** on the shorter technical tracks we have here in ca. That chassis!
My RS isn't going anywhere. That hurried, frenzied pace is missed in the gt4. A newer RS will be in my garage at some point but for now the gt4 will be a fun toy.
That said the gt4 hauls *** on the shorter technical tracks we have here in ca. That chassis!
09-11-2016, 11:19 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
09-11-2016, 11:29 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Great write up. More precise and clear than what you find in many publications, with unnecessary citations and analogies. Straight to the point. Thank you for taking the time.
09-11-2016, 12:09 PM
#15
I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and well-constructed reviews! We need to get you in a 911R next... and then every new GT car that comes down the line! Happy birthday! 
