991 GT2RS
12-26-2016, 07:40 PM
#588
Rennlist Member
Regardless and back to the 2RS thread - if only Porsche would take the forthcoming iteration in the direction of the 993 GT2. Build very few of them, make them certifiably insane and visually still a 911 but with something special (e.g. riveted fender flares) and then in keeping with how the world has changed in the twenty years since, charge Ferrari like pricing of something in the seven figures.
The fun of Internet forums - same wistful musings and pointless debates we can have at our favorite bar. No less fun here, especially if you play your own bartender at the same time!
Last edited by secretcollector; 12-26-2016 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Typo
to that!
12-26-2016, 08:07 PM
#590
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It is amazing how something gets published (in this instance, by RM for their London sale but in fairness to them, it has been in print many times previously) - that Porsche built 57 993 GT2 Strassenversions, when in fact they built 193 as listed by VIN in every reputable source. But whether it is a fact like this or countless others every day, another source simply quotes it as gospel without doing five seconds of their own research to validate.
Regardless and back to the 2RS thread - if only Porsche would take the forthcoming iteration in the direction of the 993 GT2. Build very few of them, make them certifiably insane and visually still a 911 but with something special (e.g. riveted fender flares) and then in keeping with how the world has changed in the twenty years since, charge Ferrari like pricing of something in the seven figures.
The fun of Internet forums - same wistful musings and pointless debates we can have at our favorite bar. No less fun here, especially if you play your own bartender at the same time!
Regardless and back to the 2RS thread - if only Porsche would take the forthcoming iteration in the direction of the 993 GT2. Build very few of them, make them certifiably insane and visually still a 911 but with something special (e.g. riveted fender flares) and then in keeping with how the world has changed in the twenty years since, charge Ferrari like pricing of something in the seven figures.
The fun of Internet forums - same wistful musings and pointless debates we can have at our favorite bar. No less fun here, especially if you play your own bartender at the same time!
no bartender needed here but I agree on a few things- the 993GT2 is the *****.
another thing- YES porsche needs to do whatever they can to make this thing extreme and insane - super light, no BS BURMEISTER STEREO OPTIONS FOR CRISSAKE
12-26-2016, 10:25 PM
#591
Rennlist Member
Reality check, how many GT2RS buyers will be actual buyers vs 'flippers'?
From the 911R 'experiment', we basically know there are hundreds if not thousands of potential 'buyers' of the car that just want the car for the 'flip' potential, or at least not lose money after owning one. Many here fall in that category and we don't have to name names.
Realistically, actual buyer who actually WANT a GT2RS for the whole world would be perhaps 1500 people or less because of the price point. Thousands more just want one to flip, period.
Most of the 918 owners who will get one are 'keepers', they will customized the hell out of theirs, that should account for about 400 cars world wide.. A select few who are also dealership owners WILL flip theirs simply because they have a license from Porsche to flip and they bought a 918 just for that purpose, which means they are part of the PCNA customers and should number in the 30s or so. The herd, aka other people will follow the lead of those 30 dealer owners and try their best to get an allocation for them to flip.
These 30 bad apple dealer owners will screw everyone else out of their rightful allocations, as their dealership will also charge a giant market adjustment on top of the GT2RS.
It really is time for common customers to write to PCNA TOGETHER, to tell them to take away the special privilege the dealer owners gets. Those guys screw the common customers out of cars and also give the proper 918 owners a bad name.
In the end, an educated guess would be around 2000-2500 total for the GT2RS.
From the 911R 'experiment', we basically know there are hundreds if not thousands of potential 'buyers' of the car that just want the car for the 'flip' potential, or at least not lose money after owning one. Many here fall in that category and we don't have to name names.
Realistically, actual buyer who actually WANT a GT2RS for the whole world would be perhaps 1500 people or less because of the price point. Thousands more just want one to flip, period.
Most of the 918 owners who will get one are 'keepers', they will customized the hell out of theirs, that should account for about 400 cars world wide.. A select few who are also dealership owners WILL flip theirs simply because they have a license from Porsche to flip and they bought a 918 just for that purpose, which means they are part of the PCNA customers and should number in the 30s or so. The herd, aka other people will follow the lead of those 30 dealer owners and try their best to get an allocation for them to flip.
These 30 bad apple dealer owners will screw everyone else out of their rightful allocations, as their dealership will also charge a giant market adjustment on top of the GT2RS.
It really is time for common customers to write to PCNA TOGETHER, to tell them to take away the special privilege the dealer owners gets. Those guys screw the common customers out of cars and also give the proper 918 owners a bad name.
In the end, an educated guess would be around 2000-2500 total for the GT2RS.
12-26-2016, 11:26 PM
#592
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Originally Posted by Whoopsy
Reality check, how many GT2RS buyers will be actual buyers vs 'flippers'?
From the 911R 'experiment', we basically know there are hundreds if not thousands of potential 'buyers' of the car that just want the car for the 'flip' potential, or at least not lose money after owning one. Many here fall in that category and we don't have to name names.
Realistically, actual buyer who actually WANT a GT2RS for the whole world would be perhaps 1500 people or less because of the price point. Thousands more just want one to flip, period.
Most of the 918 owners who will get one are 'keepers', they will customized the hell out of theirs, that should account for about 400 cars world wide.. A select few who are also dealership owners WILL flip theirs simply because they have a license from Porsche to flip and they bought a 918 just for that purpose, which means they are part of the PCNA customers and should number in the 30s or so. The herd, aka other people will follow the lead of those 30 dealer owners and try their best to get an allocation for them to flip.
These 30 bad apple dealer owners will screw everyone else out of their rightful allocations, as their dealership will also charge a giant market adjustment on top of the GT2RS.
It really is time for common customers to write to PCNA TOGETHER, to tell them to take away the special privilege the dealer owners gets. Those guys screw the common customers out of cars and also give the proper 918 owners a bad name.
In the end, an educated guess would be around 2000-2500 total for the GT2RS.
From the 911R 'experiment', we basically know there are hundreds if not thousands of potential 'buyers' of the car that just want the car for the 'flip' potential, or at least not lose money after owning one. Many here fall in that category and we don't have to name names.
Realistically, actual buyer who actually WANT a GT2RS for the whole world would be perhaps 1500 people or less because of the price point. Thousands more just want one to flip, period.
Most of the 918 owners who will get one are 'keepers', they will customized the hell out of theirs, that should account for about 400 cars world wide.. A select few who are also dealership owners WILL flip theirs simply because they have a license from Porsche to flip and they bought a 918 just for that purpose, which means they are part of the PCNA customers and should number in the 30s or so. The herd, aka other people will follow the lead of those 30 dealer owners and try their best to get an allocation for them to flip.
These 30 bad apple dealer owners will screw everyone else out of their rightful allocations, as their dealership will also charge a giant market adjustment on top of the GT2RS.
It really is time for common customers to write to PCNA TOGETHER, to tell them to take away the special privilege the dealer owners gets. Those guys screw the common customers out of cars and also give the proper 918 owners a bad name.
In the end, an educated guess would be around 2000-2500 total for the GT2RS.
Remember the 918's V8 only made 6XX hp and also had hybrid tech for torque and EPA.
This car will be above 650, maybe higher. Will be very hard to justify that many units when it will not be particularly MPG friendly without some kind of "eco" mode programming.
Anyone who has owned a modded TT (993, 996,997,991) will know that once you dump an extra 100HP into a car the only way to make that much (600-700 range) out of a Flat 6 is to throw more fuel at it.
I think 1000 cars WW tops because some markets won't let it in, with possibly a higher % of them coming here than the 1/3 range of 918/911R/RS. We might get 45% of them.
12-27-2016, 02:07 AM
#593
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
^^ That sounds like the end of the road for TT cars while everyone has gone TT..
TT was needed for fuel efficiency rendering NA nearly impossible, are we really that close to us all driving electric - Hybrids based on the 919? My head hurts...
TT was needed for fuel efficiency rendering NA nearly impossible, are we really that close to us all driving electric - Hybrids based on the 919? My head hurts...
12-27-2016, 02:24 AM
#594
I'm someone who won't buy the GT2RS so you guys can have my potential car. Let's see how things go with the .2GT3 in terms of dealer games and flipping. If it's as bad as it was with the GT3RS, I don't even want to think how bad it'll get with the GT2RS. It'd be nice if flippers/speculators wouldn't get 2 bites out of the allocation apple.
12-27-2016, 03:41 AM
#595
Race Car
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Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Only painful way to fix these flippers issue is from Porsche
letting the bubble and pretender flippers, burning,
i.e. releasing another batch of xxxx .2 GT3 and xxxx .2 RS
and xxxx GT2 and xxxx GT2RS
only issue is that largest Porsche market is not U.S.
but Europe
so look emissions Euro6b/c rules and homologation process,
effective September 2017 and September 2019, dictating any manufacter logic
(this time forget then any 996 997 syllogisms)
Btw everything presented within September 17 can be 4 sure in xxxx number
including the GT2RS
and BC the Euro emissions rules We will see as many as Porsche possible GT releases in 2017 that at least will scrumble any kind of 991.1 flipper logic
letting the bubble and pretender flippers, burning,
i.e. releasing another batch of xxxx .2 GT3 and xxxx .2 RS
and xxxx GT2 and xxxx GT2RS
only issue is that largest Porsche market is not U.S.
but Europe
so look emissions Euro6b/c rules and homologation process,
effective September 2017 and September 2019, dictating any manufacter logic
(this time forget then any 996 997 syllogisms)
Btw everything presented within September 17 can be 4 sure in xxxx number
including the GT2RS
and BC the Euro emissions rules We will see as many as Porsche possible GT releases in 2017 that at least will scrumble any kind of 991.1 flipper logic
Last edited by fxz; 12-27-2016 at 05:01 AM.
12-27-2016, 04:12 AM
#596
I would agree with above, Ie 1000 cars tops and a Ltd no build. Would also expect to see the car at GFS 2017, with bums in seats some time in early 18.
Not sure if its signed off yet.
IMHO
Not sure if its signed off yet.
IMHO
12-27-2016, 02:15 PM
#597
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Apolo1
I would agree with above, Ie 1000 cars tops and a Ltd no build. Would also expect to see the car at GFS 2017, with bums in seats some time in early 18.
Not sure if its signed off yet.
IMHO
Not sure if its signed off yet.
IMHO
12-27-2016, 02:58 PM
#599
12-27-2016, 04:49 PM
#600
Rennlist Member
I agree with everything except one thing- this car will be so fast that it might have issues. The entire VW group is under intense scrutiny right now and what they are going to launch could/will be the highest HP road engine ever from Porsche.
Remember the 918's V8 only made 6XX hp and also had hybrid tech for torque and EPA.
This car will be above 650, maybe higher. Will be very hard to justify that many units when it will not be particularly MPG friendly without some kind of "eco" mode programming.
Anyone who has owned a modded TT (993, 996,997,991) will know that once you dump an extra 100HP into a car the only way to make that much (600-700 range) out of a Flat 6 is to throw more fuel at it.
I think 1000 cars WW tops because some markets won't let it in, with possibly a higher % of them coming here than the 1/3 range of 918/911R/RS. We might get 45% of them.
Remember the 918's V8 only made 6XX hp and also had hybrid tech for torque and EPA.
This car will be above 650, maybe higher. Will be very hard to justify that many units when it will not be particularly MPG friendly without some kind of "eco" mode programming.
Anyone who has owned a modded TT (993, 996,997,991) will know that once you dump an extra 100HP into a car the only way to make that much (600-700 range) out of a Flat 6 is to throw more fuel at it.
I think 1000 cars WW tops because some markets won't let it in, with possibly a higher % of them coming here than the 1/3 range of 918/911R/RS. We might get 45% of them.
For turbo cars, getting good MPG from testing is easy when most of the testing are done off boost. One reason why manufacturers are doing smaller displacement engines with turbos. This isn't really 'cheating', just a the nature of how government test cars. Not sure how Porsche will tune the GT2RS, but if they do that to the extreme it will like the old days on/off switch turbo power curve.
At full throttle all bets are off. A turbo car will always uses more fuel than a comparable output NA simply because ECU dumps more fuel than necessary into the cylinders to cool the highly compressed charge.
1000 cars seems a bit low, that's not much more than the 911R's numbers and we have seen that mess. Maybe 1500?