evilfij

And if you do get it, you wonder if it was worth all the effort.

mass27

Deleted

montoya

Thanks you Eduardo for notifying us on this critical piece of information! I received my allocation this week and just stepped my dealer through this ZPT request. I can also confirm from my inside connection at PCNA that this is absolutely the case, and as far as he knows you can still put the request in, but not sure for how long.

I rushed my build to the dealer yesterday since with this process if selected it may become unchangeable and 'rushed' my PTS choice.

Again thanks to Eduardo, I changed my PTS choice from Gulf Orange to Pastel Orange. I had no idea the error of my ways until doing some research that inevitably lead to previous posts by Eduardo describing the differences! Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you!

Now fingers crossed this will work for me.... we will see. Maybe three times lucky?

Z356

No, it is me that want thank you, Andre, for trying to bring
back this thread on topic!

I am a little surprise at some of the subject matter that
lately has been surreptitiously introduced by folks at our
991 gt3 forum: Paleolithic diets & selfies of prepubescent
teens displaying their scrawny torsos a-la-Anthony Weiner!
And now...the 'joy' of **** sex!

Instead I suggest we have a serious discussion (appropiately
for this PTS-related thread) as to the best way PCNA should
select customers that will receive the limited PTS slots on the
.2 991 gt3! Perhaps we might even be able to steer PCNA into
doing the 'right thing'! So let me repeat an earlier post & hope
we get a meaningful discussion on this important topic. I thank
you all in advance for your cooperation!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO

dark knight

Sorry to go a bit OT, Eduardo, I wish you'd end your "sabbatical; and post all the time, I enjoy your knowledge of all things Porsche and find the detailed information you give makes my day. one more humorous posts perhaps more on topic,
PAG had a secret meeting about issues particular to the US market, it was held in the Hotel Graf Zeppelin, a cleaning lady recorded it with her iPhone, each dept in order of importance spoke about problems and issues, of course accounting went first followed by sales, marketing, production, engineering and lastly Exclusive (actually racing was supposed to be last but at the last minute they got cancelled. Here is part of the transcript, you must of course imagine it in German accented English:
Morgen, meine Damen und Herren, hier ist the report from Exclusive, profitability continues to be maintained in the exclusive product, we are able to continue with the current profit margin and find that customers choose these options at any cost because many of them are most fearful they will see the identical car at the local country club or in doctors parking lot. Most complicated is the so called "paint to sample" program in the USA, with the help of disruptive internet groups many American customer ask for this option. Most annoying is a group called Rennlist and the operative Eduardo, he has made many attempts to infiltrate the department and has even received help from some disloyal assosciates in the USA. This Eduardo continue to give customers informations about the inner workings of the program and he alone is causing an unacceptable rise in demand for this product. We have determined that the paint to sample program profits are nowonly amounting to 50% of the option cost instead of the usual 60%, this is of course not acceptable. Many of these old time customers see this as their right and are asking questions. We think this may be related to the American elections, each one of them is now a Donald Trump demanding and wanting to know "why" or "why not" They are unwilling to just stand in the line and wait for months or years with no answer like we Germans have been trained to do. Eduardo has given these people information about the program and access that disrupts the level of mystery we like to have. To combat this we have instituted a 8 step program to counter this disruption.
1) deny the program exists,
2) inform them the color is unacceptable and would take years to approve
3) claim the language barrier caused any confusion and the answer is no.
4) release paint to sample on things they do not wish to buy
5) make them all wait for a long time
6) give dealers no information so they make up information
7) have our apprentice program use new hires to give out information so we are assured it is wrong
8) give PTS to special customers and cars that don't exist yet as an example last week we gave Jerry Seinfeld a paint to sample slot for a 991.2 speedster with turbo body

eventually the Americans will go so crazy they will either give up, build a singer or buy the things that marketing tells us they want like a Panamera turbo executive with ostrich interior.

Eduardo I think the #3 choice in your post is perhaps the worst way to go about it and I fear it is most closely related to the truth. I am glad that the Macan/Cayenne/Panamera sales support the company, but lets face it the soccer mom diving the Cayenne is not the loyalist and car person we all are. Sometimes it seems that our special needs are denied in favor of sales of these "lesser" products to less "special" people and that hurts our feelings given how much we love and care about this company and our cars. Personally I preferred the old name Sonderwunsch as I believe that more closely described the people and product

montoya

LOL! Sometimes the best words are those unsaid! (or just go back on topic!!)

More updates- apparently my Allocation is not 'live' yet, so we can't put the request in until it is. I have no idea when that will be, hopefully Monday!

As far as who gets the limited PTS slots- I agree it should be based on prior purchases- it shouldn't be a lottery, as that leaves loyal buyers feeling somewhat cheated for their loyalty. It reminds me of an experience flying United Airlines some years ago. For once I was upgraded to first after flying over 100K miles that year, I had rarely been upgraded. As I settled in, the flight attendant began seemingly randomly asking the first class passengers their meal choices. Finally (last) she comes to me and tells me I don't have a choice and will be getting the least popular dish. Somewhat frustrated, I asked her why she came to me last; "Mr. Perra" she said, "all these other passengers have well over 200,000 miles with United this year. Some have already flown over 300,000 miles. We start with the highest mileage flyers on our meal choices." I smiled and thanked here for the explanation and shut up!

ak432

I'm sure there are dealers reading these threads so they can chime in.... In southern CA, (from conversations with two separate GM's whom I've worked with closely); The "PTS window" was well known the day that the dealers received their first .2 GT3 allocations. By well known, I mean they tiered their allocations from order of desirability (and therefore markup)

1) PDK allocations (before manual became available)
2) Manual non-PTS
3) PTS

On a different topic, MY PTS .2 GTS has been at the port for a couple of months. Apparently there have been unresolved quality control issues for PTS cars. When I probed into it a bit, I was told that this has been very common in the PTS cars as of late. There are a few threads in the 991.2 area on this with cars getting "extra attention" at the port for quality issues.

Eduardo- Are these cars still being painted off site? If so, unless quality control issues are addressed, isn't this becoming more and more of a pain for Porsche to deal with?

evilfij

You forgot:

9) randomly paint a golf blue car gulf blue and a gulf blue car golf blue to test the loyalty of our customers (they passed).
10) change the name of certain PTS colors to see if anyone is paying attention.
11) make the PTS and LTS lists the equivalent of the formula for Coca-Cola.
12) take four months to approve a color making a new color hard/impossible to get on a high demand car ....
13) do a lot of and see who is willing to put up with and do and a lot of to get to be PTS

montoya

I am sorry, but that is not what is happening. To be clear, my contact at PCNA has no input such as this. All that was known and is known at PCNA is that the PTS window is not yet open, and that there will be some sort of culling of the requests of those that have put in a ZPT option. Certainly someone high on the food chain has some idea, but in a manufacturing environment such as Porsche, I'm sure it's highly fluid and subject to a lot of change. So I'm not sure where you got this information but it sounds good for a dealer to use to manipulate mark-ups, especially if they have enough to move around when the PTS window does open up.

dark knight

Oh no the "are the cars pointed in house" argument again, I was thinking about it and heres my hypothesis, the person who was told PTS cars are painted off site was partially right, I bet what they were told actually meant that the bumper covers were painted off site or there were Qc issues with the bumper covers and they were redone nearby but off site. I cannot imagine painting the body to the cleanliness and quality needed offsite would work. My pics many moons ago showing PTS cars with multiple plastic parts of different colors suggests flaws in the subcontracted parts, which could be painted offsite. So the language barrier probably caused the confusion. I would eat my hat if anyone finds any conclusive evidence to prove any production 911 PTS body painted anywhere but the factory paint shop

ak432

Yes....lots of information out there from various "contacts." I guess one has to digest it all and decide what makes sense and what doesn't. BTW the context of the information I shared with you was that porsche is trying to make an effort to make the process less chaotic and more predictable for dealerships instead of having a few that order multiple PTS cars immediately after the window becomes open and others that get left behind with none.

ak432

What difference does it make if it's the body vs the "plastic parts?" If the overall finished product is having more quality control issues vs a non-PTS car that seems like an unnecessary headache for Porsche.

The process involves shipping the whole car to a body shop near the port of entry, then back to the port, then to the dealer...usually a significant delay and a somewhat upset customer.

Z356

Yes, I heard that already from Porsche executives based in Atlanta
& Stuttgart!

I hear you! It's the worse alternative & one that we will most
likely get unless we can convince PCNA to devise a fairer plan!

Yes, I see your point!

What you are describing (I believe) is not the 'PTS Window' as we
know it. Your two dealers are deciding ahead of time who (customer)
will get a PTS slot should one be offered to the dealer once PAG 'opens'
the PTS window for the .2 991 gt3.


Please note that in pre-991 days, there was not the interest in PTS
that has been 'created' today. And you can also say that PTS is still
not particularly difficult to get in a standard 991, 718, Panamera or
Macan models. In those non-gt models, the PTS window opens at
some point during the production cycle & stays open until all available
PTS slots are taken. You normally see in the configurator that PTS
window as open or close...although it's often not accurate if not kept
current!



However, I think we have entered a new paradigm as to who gets
PTS in a gt models starting with the 911R and now the .2 991 gt3.
Let me give you all a brief history of how PTS has been handled by
Porsche in the desirable & in-high-demand gt models (& 981 Spyders)
in recent years!

I believe that PTS on the .1 991 gt3 went mostly under-the-radar for
the MY2014 model year. There was some demand but nothing really
big! The 'Stop Sale' happened & then came the moratorium on all PTS
that impacted MY2015 gt3s in the fall of 2014. Then, surprisingly, we
in the US got in the late Spring of 2015 the 30 units built to test PTS
QC that involved the 'Signal Green', 'Arena Red Metallic' & 'Fashion Grey'
'15 late production 991 gt3s (10 each per color). We here at Rennlist
are familiar with this story since we have written about these '15 PTS
gt3s quite a bit!

For the .1 991 gt3 RS, PCNA's Melissa Witek kept records of who asked
for PTS on that model before the PTS window was opened by PAG. And
the PTS window was 'open & closed' so quickly in July 2015 that only those
customers on Witek's list got slots for the PTS .1 991 gt3 RS in the USA!
PTS Windows on the gt4 & 981 Spyders were quirky affairs that opened
& closed quickly...all in July of 2015 but at different dates each. And there
were not many slots made available for these two models!

As I tried to explain on my earlier post, the PTS window for the 911R
was very unusual! There was no 'window'. PAG basically first gave
out the allocations. Then it later took into consideration those that
requested PTS for their 911R allocations. Finally Porsche decided who
would get PTS. In the case of the US market, it was left up to PCNA.
And it was NOT a case of 'first come/first serve'! You were specifically
chosen for PTS in the 911R by Porsche!

And that is how I believe Porsche will handle PTS on this very desirable
.2 991 gt3. And it might become a format for all future PTS allocations
in the highly desirable Porsche models (e.g. next gt4, next Boxster
Spyder, next .2 991 gt3 RS, next gt2 RS, etc). There will be no PTS
window per se. Porsche will, like always, decide on the limited number
of PTS vehicles it's willing to handle in production for that model. And
they might allocate those slots to different world markets (Germany,
the Middle East, US, Canada, etc). Then it's up to Porsche's country
importer (e.g. PCNA) to decide WHO gets PTS among all the customers
that request them via their local dealers! This might be the 'Brave New
World' of PTS at Porsche going forward!

You have been listening to the 'misinformation' that two individuals at
Rennlist have been peddling. PTS 991 (like the GTS in your example)
are painted at the state-of-art paint facilities in Zuffenhausen along
with regular 991 & 718 models done in the normal offered colors!
The only thing in question is if multi-color special request PTS vehicles
that need two different paints on the surface (e.g. Hippie 918 livery
or a 911R requesting stripes be painted on & not a decal)) are given
'special treatment'. 918 panels may have indeed been painted in various
places before being assembled at Werk II. I have posted about them
before:

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...r-stories.html

And perhaps one or two 911R's with unusual paint requests for stripes
may have taken to a secret bunker under Reich Chancellery in Berlin
to have this done! But this 'off-site' work at most is just .1% of PTS
at Porsche. PTS is done 99% at factories controlled by PAG/VW Group!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO

montoya

Well we will soon see what happens. What is certain is if you don't get your ZPT request in with an allocation after September you are toast as Eduardo has already posted!

Z356

While you ponder the future of PTS in gt models,
do not forget to take a peek at C.J.'s thread re:
the gathering of automotive 'Blues' (mostly Porsches)
that was held at his dealership(s) in Fresno:



As I see the colors, from farthest away
to the one closest to the camera (BMW)!

'Night Blue Metallic' .2 991 Cabriolet
'Sapphire Blue' 718 Boxster S
'Sapphire Blue' 981 Cayman GT4
'Club Blau' 991 GTS Club Coupe
'Maritime Blue' 964RS
'Pure Blue' .2 997 Speedster
'Mexico Blue' 981 Spyder
'Miami Blue' .2 991 coupe
'Ara Blue Crystal Effect' Audi S3
'Estoril Blue' BMW 335

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...s-content.html

Saludos,
Eduardo
Vail Valley, CO