Road and Track first drive: 991 GT3
04-30-2013, 01:40 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Yet another thread going down the toilet with the same old thing being rehashed over and over again...
Gents, the era of the manual GT3/RS is over wither we like it or not. Time to come to grips with it; seek counseling if needed (Mooty ??) and let it go !!
I'm looking forward to the real reviews once it has been driven in anger. This one was just a taste...
Gents, the era of the manual GT3/RS is over wither we like it or not. Time to come to grips with it; seek counseling if needed (Mooty ??) and let it go !!
I'm looking forward to the real reviews once it has been driven in anger. This one was just a taste...
04-30-2013, 01:42 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
He's an engineer and he says what he thinks. I can respect that.
You'd prefer something that mechanically alters toe after the fact, which is what been on the cars up until now... I understand the perspective, but luckily Porsche isn't other car makers. I'll let the way it drives decide and we'll see how it plays out.
Frayed, give the 1M a shot. Both heavy and ugly, but lots of fun anyway.
You'd prefer something that mechanically alters toe after the fact, which is what been on the cars up until now... I understand the perspective, but luckily Porsche isn't other car makers. I'll let the way it drives decide and we'll see how it plays out.
Frayed, give the 1M a shot. Both heavy and ugly, but lots of fun anyway.
I respect that he has opinions, that may or may not be based on fact. I cannot respect him telling his clients & prospective clients to "shut up". Quite inappropriate.
Yeah...Porsche has SUCH a great reputation with the CL's, IMS, VariioRam, coolant fittings, etc etc etc
So of course an electronically variable rear toe will be flawless.Sorry to appear so negative, but IMO this gizmo is a solution in search of a problem. I have a LOT of seat time in a LOT of cars...probably moreso than the vast majority of folks here. Anyone who complained about not being able to rotate a GT3 at speeds above parking lot speeds needs better driving skills, not another electronic gizmo to break (in a high speed sweeper heading into a wall).
04-30-2013, 01:51 PM
#48
"Then there's the active rear steering. You'll never know it's there. You'd hardly describe the previous GT3's reactions as ponderous, but the old car did take a moment to settle into a corner, especially at the rear. The new car turns in instantly and as a whole. Understeer is nowhere to be found; at the limit, the car goes neutral."
I guess it's impossible to imagine any improvement over the old one. Or this guy just drank the cool-aid. Or we should both take AP's advice and shut up and drive the thing before continuing.
04-30-2013, 01:57 PM
#49
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with conekillr, the future for these types of cars will be auto. It sucks when all the threads about the GT3 always get hijacked by the same people making it a auto-manual discussion. Its quite annoying. As more an more gets convinced that the PDK is the way to go, they pick on stuff like "shut up and drive" comments.
I own a company and if had a group of my loyal customers in a room and I announce a new product, Yes, I would say shut up and try it. Thats assuming I have a bond with my customer where I know the product is superior in every way and the (friends) customers won't shut up. Naturally, Im not dictating it, I'm just expressing my enthusiasm and confidence that I did good for them. In this case, I think AP did the same and you folks twisted the words to make it sound obnoxious.
Get over it. PDK is the future. Stop hijacking the threads.
I own a company and if had a group of my loyal customers in a room and I announce a new product, Yes, I would say shut up and try it. Thats assuming I have a bond with my customer where I know the product is superior in every way and the (friends) customers won't shut up. Naturally, Im not dictating it, I'm just expressing my enthusiasm and confidence that I did good for them. In this case, I think AP did the same and you folks twisted the words to make it sound obnoxious.
Get over it. PDK is the future. Stop hijacking the threads.
04-30-2013, 01:59 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
04-30-2013, 02:24 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
I believe there will always be a small group of people who will always want to drive a manual when given the choice. It doesn't seem right to exclude those people just because it is not as fast as the alternative.
I personally like PDK, but I would never buy PDK unless it was used as daily driver and driven in mostly stop and go traffic. At price point of these toys I could never afford to have PDK and then have another one to have fun with. I've driven PDK there is no amount of driving it that I could do that will ever make me feel I want to replace the clutch pedal.
I pay to have a toy and I am footing the bill, there is no race to win for me. I need to get my moneys worth and get full enjoyment out of my toy. Just like a painter paints or a musician plays music, I row through the gears and push the clutch pedal. Not being able to have that choice on Porsche's top models is a real sad thing, so not only do they force feed you the next evolution bs they bump up the base price as well.
I personally like PDK, but I would never buy PDK unless it was used as daily driver and driven in mostly stop and go traffic. At price point of these toys I could never afford to have PDK and then have another one to have fun with. I've driven PDK there is no amount of driving it that I could do that will ever make me feel I want to replace the clutch pedal.
I pay to have a toy and I am footing the bill, there is no race to win for me. I need to get my moneys worth and get full enjoyment out of my toy. Just like a painter paints or a musician plays music, I row through the gears and push the clutch pedal. Not being able to have that choice on Porsche's top models is a real sad thing, so not only do they force feed you the next evolution bs they bump up the base price as well.
04-30-2013, 02:25 PM
#52
(I can no longer hold back) Seriously, I truly respect the fact that you're a pro coach and whatever, but why do you keep on bitching over and over and over again in every single thread if you don't even own a Porsche and haven't owned one in many, many years?? What do we generally call these types again??? (not saying you're one, but just look at what you're sounding like)
AP is exactly right - SHUT UP AND DRIVE it. If you don't like it after having driven it, then DON'T BUY IT. It is as painfully simple as that. No one's forcing you to buy one. NO ONE.
If you're so distraught over the original, pure GT3 being violated (which BTW you've never owned, I gather???), just remember that AP is the one who had a huge hand in inventing it in the 1st place!
For the record, I'm just as unhappy about there being no manual trans and no sport buckets (yet...! Yes, I remember the pages and pages and pages of "complaints"). But you didn't see me wasting 20,000+ posts bitching about it online.
Either drive it 1st THEN decide, or buy something else and move on. Please. Thank you.
Last edited by the_vetman; 05-01-2013 at 12:50 AM.
04-30-2013, 02:32 PM
#53
Agreed. It's a 'consolation prize' b/c it doesn't have a clutch pedal; the lack of one completely jaded the way he views the new metal. His mind was already made up b/c he doesn't like auto manuals b/c none of them are interesting enough.
Nobody here is going to earn a living in connection with the purchase or driving an the new GT3. So, I think it's all about entertainment. Speed is just one component of being entertained. Some put a third pedal above speed in defining entertainment, some put that as the primary, most important feature.
I'm a softening manual die hard hopeful the box is 'good enough' when combined with the what the rest of the car offers.
Nobody here is going to earn a living in connection with the purchase or driving an the new GT3. So, I think it's all about entertainment. Speed is just one component of being entertained. Some put a third pedal above speed in defining entertainment, some put that as the primary, most important feature.
I'm a softening manual die hard hopeful the box is 'good enough' when combined with the what the rest of the car offers.
Nick doesn't appear to have any interest in a Porsche let alone an RS, other than explaining why you are all idiots for buying silly assed winged tarted up 911s that will depreciate like bricks. I don't understand why he's here. 11 posts in this thread alone on RS allocations for 2008, but is not on any wait list (right Nick?) and is not contributing anything to the enjoyment of the GT3 or RS to current and prospective owners. No insights (beyond telling everyone how stupid they are for paying over sticker for an RS), no technical information, no sense of comraderie, no compelling questions, no nothing.
His latest random posts on just this forum. Let's not even get into other forums, or other boards like rennteam or 6speed.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...5&postcount=25
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...4&postcount=12
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=109
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=109
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...2&postcount=57
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...4&postcount=62
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...0&postcount=58
His latest random posts on just this forum. Let's not even get into other forums, or other boards like rennteam or 6speed.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...5&postcount=25
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...4&postcount=12
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=109
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=109
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...2&postcount=57
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...4&postcount=62
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...0&postcount=58
04-30-2013, 02:36 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
I believe there will always be a small group of people who will always want to drive a manual when given the choice. It doesn't seem right to exclude those people just because it is not as fast as the alternative.
I pay to have a toy and I am footing the bill, there is no race to win for me. I need to get my moneys worth and get full enjoyment out of my toy. Just like a painter paints or a musician plays music, I row through the gears and push the clutch pedal. Not being able to have that choice on Porsche's top models is a real sad thing, so not only do they force feed you the next evolution bs they bump up the base price as well.
I pay to have a toy and I am footing the bill, there is no race to win for me. I need to get my moneys worth and get full enjoyment out of my toy. Just like a painter paints or a musician plays music, I row through the gears and push the clutch pedal. Not being able to have that choice on Porsche's top models is a real sad thing, so not only do they force feed you the next evolution bs they bump up the base price as well.
04-30-2013, 02:46 PM
#55
I think it's clear that the reason for the switches made with the GT3 aren't for 911 enthusiasts who have been supporting the cars for years and years, but instead to attract individuals to the model like Nick who have clearly had no interest until now.
The new GT3 might be a great car but is it really a GT3 or is it the new 991 GTS with optional power pack?
The new GT3 might be a great car but is it really a GT3 or is it the new 991 GTS with optional power pack?
04-30-2013, 03:00 PM
#56
Race Car
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure what you are getting at but you misquoted me and I'm not Nick. And I prefer a manual given the choice but I'm also accepting the movement to auto boxes. Really looking forward to it on track. . .
04-30-2013, 03:06 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
I think it's clear that the reason for the switches made with the GT3 aren't for 911 enthusiasts who have been supporting the cars for years and years, but instead to attract individuals to the model like Nick who have clearly had no interest until now.
The new GT3 might be a great car but is it really a GT3 or is it the new 991 GTS with optional power pack?
The new GT3 might be a great car but is it really a GT3 or is it the new 991 GTS with optional power pack?
You're right when you post the 991GT3 attracts people like me because it has more GT in it. That is what I want! The bonus is it also remains essentially a hardcore track car. Had this car been offering manual this entire discussion would not be taking place.
04-30-2013, 03:14 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 things from my side:
1. "I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars"..says the man who once said paddle shift is for grandma´s..lol
2. "And don't bother crying over the disappearance of the Mezger motor. This car uses effectively the same 3.8-liter block as the Carrera S,.."..suprised..I thought the 991 GT3 engine had a new block..as was mentioned so far..which is a good thing..
1. "I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars"..says the man who once said paddle shift is for grandma´s..lol
2. "And don't bother crying over the disappearance of the Mezger motor. This car uses effectively the same 3.8-liter block as the Carrera S,.."..suprised..I thought the 991 GT3 engine had a new block..as was mentioned so far..which is a good thing..
04-30-2013, 03:20 PM
#59
He's an engineer and he says what he thinks. I can respect that.
You'd prefer something that mechanically alters toe after the fact, which is what been on the cars up until now... I understand the perspective, but luckily Porsche isn't other car makers. I'll let the way it drives decide and we'll see how it plays out.
Frayed, give the 1M a shot. Both heavy and ugly, but lots of fun anyway.
You'd prefer something that mechanically alters toe after the fact, which is what been on the cars up until now... I understand the perspective, but luckily Porsche isn't other car makers. I'll let the way it drives decide and we'll see how it plays out.
Frayed, give the 1M a shot. Both heavy and ugly, but lots of fun anyway.
I respect that he has opinions, that may or may not be based on fact. I cannot respect him telling his clients & prospective clients to "shut up". Quite inappropriate.
Yeah...Porsche has SUCH a great reputation with the CL's, IMS, VariioRam, coolant fittings, etc etc etc
So of course an electronically variable rear toe will be flawless.Sorry to appear so negative, but IMO this gizmo is a solution in search of a problem. I have a LOT of seat time in a LOT of cars...probably moreso than the vast majority of folks here. Anyone who complained about not being able to rotate a GT3 at speeds above parking lot speeds needs better driving skills, not another electronic gizmo to break (in a high speed sweeper heading into a wall).
We get it you don't like the car.
You just seem to be clinging to any sort of aggression to keep the fight alive.
I wonder how many posts shorter this thread would have been if you never heard ap make that comment.
04-30-2013, 03:22 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
I have NEVER held myself out to be a wannabe trackman. Buying a raw car for primarily track work is not my gig and I have so stated many times. Nor would I pay over MSRP for a car regardless of how good it is. I recently check with my dealer to make sure the car would be sold at MSRP. Otherwise I was asking for my deposit back.
You're right when you post the 991GT3 attracts people like me because it has more GT in it. That is what I want! The bonus is it also remains essentially a hardcore track car. Had this car been offering manual this entire discussion would not be taking place.
You're right when you post the 991GT3 attracts people like me because it has more GT in it. That is what I want! The bonus is it also remains essentially a hardcore track car. Had this car been offering manual this entire discussion would not be taking place.
If the new 991 'GT3' is going to have minimal (if any) linkage to the racing cars, then it isn't a GT3.
It could still be a great car - though it is definitely not something aimed at me, or many other GT-car owners/buyers.