Bought a Cayman S instead of a Z06
03-01-2006, 01:37 PM
#31
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The cay strikes me as a better all around car. I am seriously considering one for a year round car with four snows in the winter on an alternate set of rims. Now when we get hit with deep snow it obviously will stay home, but for the other mini-storms, it would probably be fine.
I know porsche tests most of their cars up in snow country extensivly. Something tells me that corvette doesent do so especially on the Z, but who knows.
For a summer only car (toy) the vette might get the nod. It will be really hard to pass up on a car like that for little more money than the porsche and have something different in the garage.
But the main issue I have is the problem of how many summer only cars can one own and still be sane and actually enjoy them all and have time to keep them all perfect? At this point I have two summer toys and unless I sell something, the next car is going to be used semi-daily and at night kept in the driveway most of the time rather than the garage. I mean it is hard to consider using a porsche every day. But as long as I have access to a beater to take to less than desirable locations, I dont see it as a problem.
The ZO6 doesent strike me as something that would take kindly to narrower snow tires even if I could get them for hopefully smaller winter rims.
I know porsche tests most of their cars up in snow country extensivly. Something tells me that corvette doesent do so especially on the Z, but who knows.
For a summer only car (toy) the vette might get the nod. It will be really hard to pass up on a car like that for little more money than the porsche and have something different in the garage.
But the main issue I have is the problem of how many summer only cars can one own and still be sane and actually enjoy them all and have time to keep them all perfect? At this point I have two summer toys and unless I sell something, the next car is going to be used semi-daily and at night kept in the driveway most of the time rather than the garage. I mean it is hard to consider using a porsche every day. But as long as I have access to a beater to take to less than desirable locations, I dont see it as a problem.
The ZO6 doesent strike me as something that would take kindly to narrower snow tires even if I could get them for hopefully smaller winter rims.
03-01-2006, 02:41 PM
#32
If you are talking about serious snow, the big problem that either car has is ground clearance. You won't get much traction if the snow is high enough to push on the car's undercarriage, and it doesn't take much snow for that to happen to either car.
03-01-2006, 03:28 PM
#33
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FWIW I've driven a Boxster ('99) with winter tires in up to 6" of snow w/o problems. We even got a dumping one night (6"-9") and I went out in the neighborhood before the plows got to the roads. I did a fair amount of bob-and-weaving, but never got stuck...even the little uphill before our driveway.
I would suggest the Cayman S would be excellent in anything but really deep snow. (..as long as you have winter tires!)
I would suggest the Cayman S would be excellent in anything but really deep snow. (..as long as you have winter tires!)
03-01-2006, 04:51 PM
#34
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Obviously deep snow would be a problem. But the car wouldent be for that type of thing. I mean if we get a few storms over 6" a year it is usually a lot. Even at that, most roads and lots are plowed in a few hours after the storm. What I am saying is that I probably couldent leave this one in the garage prisoner till spring with summer only tires. For deep stuff, I usually stay in or commendeer the family SUV to have some fun.
I have driven the 944 in snow years ago with snow tires and it is only the deep stuff that really presents a problem. With 50/50 or better weight over the rear, you are good to go with snows and a limited slip or traction control of some sort.
A family member has been using M3's all year round with 4 snows for about a decade now with little trouble in normal snow/slush. Currently he runs 18" blizzaks in the winter and the 19" pilots in the summer.
On the ZO6 though, I dont know if you can get snows for it. I dont know if a smaller rim would clear the brakes. Scarier issue is that you would have to go narrower with the wheels to make the snow tires more effective, between the width difference, and the different tires, I suspect that the ZO6 might be a tad loose so to speek.
Pretty much the ZO6 is summer only and the cayman is borderline.
I have driven the 944 in snow years ago with snow tires and it is only the deep stuff that really presents a problem. With 50/50 or better weight over the rear, you are good to go with snows and a limited slip or traction control of some sort.
A family member has been using M3's all year round with 4 snows for about a decade now with little trouble in normal snow/slush. Currently he runs 18" blizzaks in the winter and the 19" pilots in the summer.
On the ZO6 though, I dont know if you can get snows for it. I dont know if a smaller rim would clear the brakes. Scarier issue is that you would have to go narrower with the wheels to make the snow tires more effective, between the width difference, and the different tires, I suspect that the ZO6 might be a tad loose so to speek.
Pretty much the ZO6 is summer only and the cayman is borderline.
03-01-2006, 05:09 PM
#35
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I wouldn't call the Cayman S borderline...not in the least. My Boxster was brilliant in the winter, so I would expect the Cayman S to be even better considering PSM, et al. I'm sure winter tires can be found for the larger wheels (if not this winter, for sure next...). Narrower tires are a help, but not a necessity. My Boxster ran standard 17" wheels/tires, which were 7.5" in front and 9" wide rear. I know of others who use 18" wheels/tires with stock widths on their newer 987s without any problem. The Cayman S would be no different.
I also drove a 944 for five winters (albeit with "all season" tires). The mid-engined cars are miles ahead. Consider, not unlike a 911, you have the motor's weight right on the rear wheels for traction. I had to add weight in my 944...despite "50/50 weight distribution", I felt the back end very light in the winter.
Of course, tires have a lot to do with all of that...
Obligatory photo of the "winter beater"...
I also drove a 944 for five winters (albeit with "all season" tires). The mid-engined cars are miles ahead. Consider, not unlike a 911, you have the motor's weight right on the rear wheels for traction. I had to add weight in my 944...despite "50/50 weight distribution", I felt the back end very light in the winter.
Of course, tires have a lot to do with all of that...Obligatory photo of the "winter beater"...
03-01-2006, 05:37 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by ClassJ
But the main issue I have is the problem of how many summer only cars can one own and still be sane and actually enjoy them all...At this point I have two summer toys
Alan
03-01-2006, 08:15 PM
#39
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Thanks for the insite doug, nice to hear 944/cayman comparisons. If what you are saying is correct, I am sure it would be fine in all but deep (6"+) snow. At least porsche considers winter driving.
As far as corvette is concerned, the dealer didnt inspire too much confidence in me for winter driving. Basicly pointing out that one could drive a ZO6 in the winter but why would you want to. It might be fine in the snow, but somehow I am not as convinced as I am with the porsche.
I tell you one thing, I drove the cayman and it really amplifies all the things I love about the 944, without some of the things I dont like about the 911. It felt really nice and sounded great. The vette would have to be some ride to out do the cay.
I have driven the regular C6, and in truth I think I would rather have the cayman.
As far as corvette is concerned, the dealer didnt inspire too much confidence in me for winter driving. Basicly pointing out that one could drive a ZO6 in the winter but why would you want to. It might be fine in the snow, but somehow I am not as convinced as I am with the porsche.
I tell you one thing, I drove the cayman and it really amplifies all the things I love about the 944, without some of the things I dont like about the 911. It felt really nice and sounded great. The vette would have to be some ride to out do the cay.
I have driven the regular C6, and in truth I think I would rather have the cayman.
03-01-2006, 08:50 PM
#40
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Shane: Great decision and congratulations! You'll be extremely happy when you get your Cayman.
Just last Saturday I got to drive for the first time a couple regular C6's (coupe and convertible) at a Chevrolet event with an autocross type setup, and I was not impressed, in fact very much disappointed. The power capability is there and brakes were good too. But the steering precision, and the solid quality feel that I consistently get out of my 911 is not on the C6's. I'm also 6'2" and felt very claustrophobic in the C6 coupe, and the top frame of the windshield of the C6 convertible was right there in front of my line of sight, imparing visibility on the autocross. And in addition the quality of interior materials in my 911, is still a step further from the C6 (Z06 inclusive).
After the event I was pondering about how the automotive press raves on what a great value the C6 represents, in terms of what you get for your money. But after my experience with the C6 I can honestly say (and confirm) that Porsche vehicles are a much better value for the money. Considering that I don't consider 0 to 60 times and top-end hp a measurement of a cars quality.
Just last Saturday I got to drive for the first time a couple regular C6's (coupe and convertible) at a Chevrolet event with an autocross type setup, and I was not impressed, in fact very much disappointed. The power capability is there and brakes were good too. But the steering precision, and the solid quality feel that I consistently get out of my 911 is not on the C6's. I'm also 6'2" and felt very claustrophobic in the C6 coupe, and the top frame of the windshield of the C6 convertible was right there in front of my line of sight, imparing visibility on the autocross. And in addition the quality of interior materials in my 911, is still a step further from the C6 (Z06 inclusive).
After the event I was pondering about how the automotive press raves on what a great value the C6 represents, in terms of what you get for your money. But after my experience with the C6 I can honestly say (and confirm) that Porsche vehicles are a much better value for the money. Considering that I don't consider 0 to 60 times and top-end hp a measurement of a cars quality.
Last edited by Fast40th; 03-02-2006 at 06:59 PM.
03-01-2006, 09:46 PM
#41
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If Porsche could charge over sticker for the Cayman S, they would, just like the Chevy dealers. I remember in 2001 when 996 Turbos were made of 'unobtainium' and were priced $20,000 over sticker.
I tried to buy a Boxster S in 2000 and talked to many different Porsche dealers only to be told that I could make a deposit and get put on a list. I might or might not get a car, and with no price gaurantee. They were willing, of course, to sell me a car off the lot for $15,000 over sticker.
I went to a Chevy dealer and ordered a Z06 with no BS. Got the car in a month, drove it for 40,000 miles and sold it. I often think I would have truly enjoyed a Boxster S.
Believe me, if demand for the Cayman exceeded supply, the Porsche dealers would acting just like the Chevy dealers.
Jim
I tried to buy a Boxster S in 2000 and talked to many different Porsche dealers only to be told that I could make a deposit and get put on a list. I might or might not get a car, and with no price gaurantee. They were willing, of course, to sell me a car off the lot for $15,000 over sticker.
I went to a Chevy dealer and ordered a Z06 with no BS. Got the car in a month, drove it for 40,000 miles and sold it. I often think I would have truly enjoyed a Boxster S.
Believe me, if demand for the Cayman exceeded supply, the Porsche dealers would acting just like the Chevy dealers.
Jim
03-01-2006, 10:47 PM
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Fast40th and Jim,
Fast: Thanks for the post. Very interesting and insightful. I'm 6'0" and athletic. I sat in the Z06 but didn't drive it. I'm obviously excited to get the Cayman. It'll be a long three months. I think the automotive press is raving about the Power to Money ratio. You obvsiously get a lot of power for 70K. Where else can you get 500+ horsepower. Unfortunately, I need more than just pure power.
Jim: I agree. If Porsche could sale their car for 10K over MSRP then they would. Thankfully, demand hasn't exceeded price.
Shane
Fast: Thanks for the post. Very interesting and insightful. I'm 6'0" and athletic. I sat in the Z06 but didn't drive it. I'm obviously excited to get the Cayman. It'll be a long three months. I think the automotive press is raving about the Power to Money ratio. You obvsiously get a lot of power for 70K. Where else can you get 500+ horsepower. Unfortunately, I need more than just pure power.
Jim: I agree. If Porsche could sale their car for 10K over MSRP then they would. Thankfully, demand hasn't exceeded price.
Shane
Last edited by Helo Driver; 03-03-2006 at 04:27 PM.
03-02-2006, 02:47 AM
#43
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No offense but I would like to see what would hapen if tomorrow I showed up at a P Car dealer "assuming they were released" asking for a test drive and then wanted to put an order in on a 997 Turbo at MSRP.
Yes majority of Chevy dealers are bad some are very bad. But there are a few good ones out there.
Z06 in the snow is just not a good idea. A 505 horse, rear wheel screamer is just not the set up to build confidence in the snow with.
Went to a local P Car dealership yesterday. Looking at 04 TT Cab's. Got to test drive 2 of them. One of them being a TTS Cab. Beautiful cars. Dealership was very professional and laid back. The sales guy also was very cool and low key. Enjoyable experience. He was saying "we are going to hit this long car pool onramp, there is a sweeping right and then back to the left with a 1/2 mile straight divided road". I took it like a P Car should. Later he said "I like the fact that you know how to drive a Porsche, most people are intimidated by them and I have make them pull over hand me the keys so I give them a dose of performance and then hand it back to them"! I thought that was cool!
Anyway Corvette owners are their own worst enemy when it comes to test drives. They bitch about not being able to test drive them when new, but they bitch even louder about a new car with anything over 8 or 9 miles on it.
By the way I saw my first Caymen yesterday at the dealership. Very sweet car!!!!
Yes majority of Chevy dealers are bad some are very bad. But there are a few good ones out there.
Z06 in the snow is just not a good idea. A 505 horse, rear wheel screamer is just not the set up to build confidence in the snow with.
Went to a local P Car dealership yesterday. Looking at 04 TT Cab's. Got to test drive 2 of them. One of them being a TTS Cab. Beautiful cars. Dealership was very professional and laid back. The sales guy also was very cool and low key. Enjoyable experience. He was saying "we are going to hit this long car pool onramp, there is a sweeping right and then back to the left with a 1/2 mile straight divided road". I took it like a P Car should. Later he said "I like the fact that you know how to drive a Porsche, most people are intimidated by them and I have make them pull over hand me the keys so I give them a dose of performance and then hand it back to them"! I thought that was cool!
Anyway Corvette owners are their own worst enemy when it comes to test drives. They bitch about not being able to test drive them when new, but they bitch even louder about a new car with anything over 8 or 9 miles on it.
By the way I saw my first Caymen yesterday at the dealership. Very sweet car!!!!
03-02-2006, 03:17 AM
#44
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i request for test drives when i am ready to buy.
i study the car over and over, and use test drive as the last metric.
test drive is not about driving around from one redlight to the next, it is about TEST DRIVE the car like how you plan to use it. when i tested my GT3 and cayman, i can't help it but drifted it right up the on ramp. after some terrible burnt rubber smell when i returned to the dealership, i signed and drove them home. i dont mind if my NEW car go a couple hundred miles on them. i put over 1k miles on each of my car in a week, so a few hundred miles wont kill me. and even if you bounced the new car off the rev l imiter a dozen times it's not gonna hurt it. i know b/c i do that all the time on my cars. and if a car is hurt that easily, maybe you shouldn't buy it.
i study the car over and over, and use test drive as the last metric.
test drive is not about driving around from one redlight to the next, it is about TEST DRIVE the car like how you plan to use it. when i tested my GT3 and cayman, i can't help it but drifted it right up the on ramp. after some terrible burnt rubber smell when i returned to the dealership, i signed and drove them home. i dont mind if my NEW car go a couple hundred miles on them. i put over 1k miles on each of my car in a week, so a few hundred miles wont kill me. and even if you bounced the new car off the rev l imiter a dozen times it's not gonna hurt it. i know b/c i do that all the time on my cars. and if a car is hurt that easily, maybe you shouldn't buy it.
03-02-2006, 06:59 AM
#45
Yes but what will hurt the engine is taking it to redline within two minutes of putting the key in the ignition. From what I've been told, that practice isn't uncommon for Porsche demos.